Flying by to let you know that MD 47 is made into an animated film version. The link, neo artes, is in the comments of 47 and 48. It's amazing to see what Ruela has done with the episode and it was really strange to see faces with the words!
I got scared off Novel spaces when the little box told me there was a connecting problem to do with my comment there...I just checked, and it finally got in.Heh. Now I have trouble commenting here, something about anonymous comments.
Nertheless, I need to kill a few minutes until the bank opens and I can get drunk, so here is what I had said in Novel Spaces:
Good write-up on Dr. Jeff Howard Charles.
You yourself have obviously got the PhD snap without sounding "classroom."
Fascinating thesis on PO and LO.
Nyself, the graduate of a technical university, it sort of had to be Ambi/PO and LO. You were learning oriented, and by the necessity of your trade, certainly performance oriented. But there was a secret smugness here. I got to university late, after a long stint in the Air Force. I had done much reading and learning there and had a secret vanity that I would be ahead of the other young whippersnappers in class, even if they misunderstood my lame joke about the Marquis de Sade being the first whippersnapper. After Ryerson Polytech, I went on to Trinity College, University of Toronto to find that this was like high school, but three times as hard. Definitely performance oriented--you had to get your A's--but no so much Learning oriented. ...Much of the material was rote learning. So I would have a secret smile as I drew my C's and B's.: I felt myself learning oriented. I wanted to know, not to repeat. It seemed to me that I was a sort of Diogenes with his lamp, but if I stayed in this group of competitive crafty high achievers, they might not find it above themselves as to be so competitive as to actually try to steal my lamp. Harvard Business School?
I agree with Dr. Howard that Amerians seem to take in the PO attitude with the water”, but I think there is more.
Seems to me there are insiders and outsider.
When I was inside the Toronto Star Weekly, publishing was routine, your work would go out all over the worled, creative and nonfiction. It was a job, you were expected to produce a minor masterpiece every three days or so. As I say, it was a job. Some of us on staff would even look down on a great writer like Norman Mailer and wonder if he would last a month under regular editorial pressure. In spite of his awesome successes, he was nevertheless a freelancer, a writer without a job. And besides, as we all joked, all the man needed was a little height
Middle Ditch, that's cool. I'll have to check it out.
Ivan, naturally any "two kinds of people" thing is an oversimplification. But interesting nevertheless. Thanks for commenting over there. I appreciate it for sure.
Oversimplification if taken alone, yes --but like you, Charles, I enjoy the mind game of things like this. Ties in nicely with something Jeff VanderMeer has in his new BOOKLIFE --(and I'm paraphrasing) that sometimes you can be really talented at something that doesn't really bring you joy (and I'm assuming the converse is also true).
Richard, yes indeed. I know quite a few people who I'd consider wildly talented at certain things but they do NOT want to do those things. They want to do other stuff, often things they don't do as well.
Your post brought to mind a moment I witnessed in a motivation seminar once. The leader told a story of his son who would not try something new because he didn't want to come in second best. The audience sighed with approval - a bunch of PO folks, obviously.
The leader wanted to make the opposite point about LO behavior, and after the reaction he got, I think he did no more than confuse people.
As pretty much average at doing just about anything, I learned early that effort often makes up for lack of talent.
25 comments:
dropped by. I like to think i'm in both sides and have a little of PO and a little of LO.
And i must confess this thing makes me laugh. because...
"PO-LO" in spanish mean "Ice Pop" and with the eat in the streets i feel like licking writers put in litlle sticks :P
Flying by to let you know that MD 47 is made into an animated film version. The link, neo artes, is in the comments of 47 and 48. It's amazing to see what Ruela has done with the episode and it was really strange to see faces with the words!
Charles,
I got scared off Novel spaces when the little box told me there was a connecting problem to do with my comment there...I just checked, and it finally got in.Heh. Now I have trouble commenting here, something about anonymous comments.
Nertheless, I need to kill a few minutes until the bank opens and I can get drunk, so here is what I had said in Novel Spaces:
Good write-up on Dr. Jeff Howard Charles.
You yourself have obviously got the PhD snap without sounding "classroom."
Fascinating thesis on PO and LO.
Nyself, the graduate of a technical university, it sort of had to be Ambi/PO and LO. You were learning oriented, and by the necessity of your trade, certainly performance oriented.
But there was a secret smugness here. I got to university late, after a long stint in the Air Force. I had done much reading and learning there and had a secret vanity that I would be ahead of the other young whippersnappers in class, even if they misunderstood my lame joke about the Marquis de Sade being the first whippersnapper.
After Ryerson Polytech, I went on to Trinity College, University of Toronto to find that this was like high school, but three times as hard. Definitely performance oriented--you had to get your A's--but no so much Learning oriented. ...Much of the material was rote learning.
So I would have a secret smile as I drew my C's and B's.: I felt myself learning oriented. I wanted to know, not to repeat.
It seemed to me that I was a sort of Diogenes with his lamp, but if I stayed in this group of competitive crafty high achievers, they might not find it above themselves as to be so competitive as to actually try to steal my lamp. Harvard Business School?
I agree with Dr. Howard that Amerians seem to take in the PO attitude with the water”, but I think there is more.
Seems to me there are insiders and outsider.
When I was inside the Toronto Star Weekly, publishing was routine, your work would go out all over the worled, creative and nonfiction. It was a job, you were expected to produce a minor masterpiece every three days or so.
As I say, it was a job. Some of us on staff would even look down on a great writer like Norman Mailer and wonder if he would last a month under regular editorial pressure. In spite of his awesome successes, he was nevertheless a freelancer, a writer without a job. And besides, as we all joked, all the man needed was a little height
So yes, PO and LO.
Deka, lol. Ice Pop. I like that.
Middle Ditch, that's cool. I'll have to check it out.
Ivan, naturally any "two kinds of people" thing is an oversimplification. But interesting nevertheless. Thanks for commenting over there. I appreciate it for sure.
Oversimplification if taken alone, yes --but like you, Charles, I enjoy the mind game of things like this. Ties in nicely with something Jeff VanderMeer has in his new BOOKLIFE --(and I'm paraphrasing) that sometimes you can be really talented at something that doesn't really bring you joy (and I'm assuming the converse is also true).
Richard, yes indeed. I know quite a few people who I'd consider wildly talented at certain things but they do NOT want to do those things. They want to do other stuff, often things they don't do as well.
nothing like good word play, keeps one on one's toes! ;)
Charles, I will stop by this weekend when I have more time to check out your guest appearance!
I'll just sit here and mind the fort.
Your post brought to mind a moment I witnessed in a motivation seminar once. The leader told a story of his son who would not try something new because he didn't want to come in second best. The audience sighed with approval - a bunch of PO folks, obviously.
The leader wanted to make the opposite point about LO behavior, and after the reaction he got, I think he did no more than confuse people.
As pretty much average at doing just about anything, I learned early that effort often makes up for lack of talent.
See ya there!
Is like the melting of the witch in Wizard of Oz ;)
laughingwolf, I know. I much enjoy it.
jodi, thankee. Sometimes busyiness abounds.
Heff, I hope you're armed considering this crew.
Ron Scheer, I consider that the most important thing I've ever learned, that work makes up for lack of talent.
jennifer, appreciated.
Deka Black, I can see that.
Oversimplifications often serve to illustrate a very large subject so that the laymen can grasp it without taking a semester or two of prereqs.
I'm glad to have folks like you around that help the little folk like myself keep on learning to grow in my art, and with it, my life.
eric1313, I think so too, as long as we remember that they are oversimplifications.
"In this world there's two types of people, my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig."
Sorry, Charles, couldn't resist once I'd thought of it.
Ty, one of my favorite lines of all times. The good, the Bad and the Ugly!
Not sure yet where this is going, but I could use a Po-Boy sandwich right about now . . .
Good thoughts, now I will find myself thinking, is that PO or LO (or maybe just BO) :)
That's a really interesting post. I think generalizations often leave out a lot of people, but these two seem to do a good job of fixing that.
It definitely seems like a lot of writers are PO!
I love reading articles on writers. I'll zip right over there and read it.
Erik Donald France, now you're talking my language.
Cloudia, thankee.
sage, could be a combination of many "Os"
Greg Schwartz, oh yes, they are are always so simplified, but the human mind kind of thrives on simplicities.
Christina, thanks, I appreciate that.
I'm sure I'm both.
Very interesting article. Also, I enjoyed the one about 'rules'...
Vesper, I liked taht rule one myself.
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