tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post9150062682670973376..comments2024-02-12T17:59:33.534-06:00Comments on RAZORED ZEN: Heavy Metal Versus Hard RockCharles Gramlichhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-68369524239014895432014-12-06T05:16:46.222-06:002014-12-06T05:16:46.222-06:00I tried many times to dance on hard rock music. Bu...I tried many times to dance on hard rock music. But unfortunately, I could not get it out in sense of dancing steps. But metal genre of <a href="http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/best-heavy-metal-bands-that-i-know" rel="nofollow">heavy metal bands</a> is best loved to me every time. I really enjoy this kind of music freely.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17676985203563014920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-78174452287591677412012-09-28T21:31:43.555-05:002012-09-28T21:31:43.555-05:00Charles-Hard rock any day! Sometimes all day!!Charles-Hard rock any day! Sometimes all day!!jodihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01798858210138821711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-51701236014996812252012-09-27T14:31:44.185-05:002012-09-27T14:31:44.185-05:00Ty, the lables get spread around to bands that don...Ty, the lables get spread around to bands that don't fit when marketing groups get hold of them. The same thing happened when metal got kind of popular. Lots of bands were labeled metal who had no connection at all. Soundgarden was definitely not grunge. The songs I liked by them were on the metal edge of their repertoire. I'm not a fan of Nirvana's at all, though their drummer was/is pretty cool. I'm also not a fan of Pearl Jam. Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-64630320134997503862012-09-26T14:30:25.645-05:002012-09-26T14:30:25.645-05:00Ya know, the funny thing about grunge is that so m...Ya know, the funny thing about grunge is that so many bands that received the "grunge" label really weren't grunge bands. Grunge at its core was an outpouring of punk, sort of a mix of punk with hard rock and some lighter echoes. Nirvana, for example, was definitely a grunge band. I seem to remember a Cobain interview in which he said the sound he was going for was a mix of Black Sabbath with The Beatles, and I actually think he accomplished such on some of the band's early material, before making it big.<br /><br />Soundgarden, not grunge, though they got lumped in because of the Seattle connection. Before Nirvana hit big, Soundarden had been promoted as a more traditional hard rock or metal band, but those labels never really hit.<br /><br />Pearl Jam was more influenced by '60s rock, The Doors, The Who, Hendrix, etc., and to some extent folk music, definitely Dylan, and prog rock. No punk background here, though the Ramones were somewhat of an influence.<br /><br />Smashing Pumpkins has a weird, almost unique set of influences, from New Wave material of the late '70s and early '80s, to ... believe it or not ... heavy metal. Billy Corgan was a huge Pantera and Sabbath fan.<br /><br />Stone Temple Pilots ... well, in my opinion, the band was just a bunch of wannabes who were influenced by other bands making it big in the early 90s. They wanted to be the next Pearl Jam or Alice in Chains, maybe. I'm not saying they're music sucks, but I do think the lyrics were lacking and the music was more derivative than original.Tyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09192814826756623212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-49553590445022317802012-09-26T07:29:13.044-05:002012-09-26T07:29:13.044-05:00Vesper, mayhaps! :)
X. Dell, you're going abo...Vesper, mayhaps! :)<br /><br />X. Dell, you're going about it way too rationally, my friend. Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-12512498005958891812012-09-25T22:56:21.355-05:002012-09-25T22:56:21.355-05:00When I look at differences in rock subgenres, I us...When I look at differences in rock subgenres, I usually look at marketing niches.X. Dellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17561609651507566271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-85353562480595612452012-09-25T22:27:10.706-05:002012-09-25T22:27:10.706-05:00Your two lists are a good place for me to start......Your two lists are a good place for me to start... :-)Vesperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12417602625059442986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-77909045551594379862012-09-25T19:03:51.243-05:002012-09-25T19:03:51.243-05:00 Chris, ahh, so that is what “prog” is. I don’t li... Chris, ahh, so that is what “prog” is. I don’t like Rush either, or Yes, although I didn’t mind “roundabout” for some reason. One or two riffs I can stand from those bands. The only song I liked off “Theater of Pain” by the Crue was “Louder than Hell.” They definitely went through some wide scale changes in their day. I like a lot of the music off New Tattoo, and some stuff like Primal Scream. I’ve seen Metal: A Headbanger’s Journey. Very interesting. Savatage is another of those bands that really showed the link between classical and heavy music. They did “in the hall of the mountain king.” Def Lepperd became a major disappointment for me. Pyromania I could live with, although I really liked their early two albums. When they put out “Pour some sugar on me” I just said, “I’m done.”<br /><br /> Richard Godwin, Nickleback is a good hard rock band, although they play some lighter music. I like their rockers. Pearl Jam is a bit different. They are part of that grunge movement although they can rock out at times. Most of their stuff is pretty angsty, though, perhaps too much for me. Maybe they are what is called progressive rock. Beers and some volume sounds nice!<br /> <br /> laughingwolf, absolutely. Kids need some kind of a connection that helps them separate and identify themselves to each other, as opposed to being part of the large scale society.<br /><br /> Erik Donald France, Zepp’s range was pretty amazing given where they came from. They have some songs I don’t care for, but most of it I can listen to for a change of pace. Then things like “levee breaks” I really love.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-6602280047298471092012-09-25T16:50:27.006-05:002012-09-25T16:50:27.006-05:00Re: Ty Johnston's and your comments about Led ...Re: Ty Johnston's and your comments about Led Zeppelin. Eclectic, yes. "Heavy blues" -- also sounds good to me. After going all the way back to the first recorded blues songs and forward in time again, it's truly cool to play the various interpretations along the way. LZ does some amazing variations, certainly. I tend to listen to less overplayed Zep all day upon occasion. Erik Donald Francehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02332500850365598564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-45608738252610742612012-09-25T13:27:15.956-05:002012-09-25T13:27:15.956-05:00good analysis...
i see most as anti-establishment...good analysis...<br /><br />i see most as anti-establishment, been going on for ages... 'kids' breaking free of the 'moral' constraints imposed on em, first by parents, then 'church' [of every persuasion], and 'society', all dictating as to what's 'best' for their offspring to listen/dance to<br /><br />as long as there are kids, you will have some kind of 'pushback', as today's buzzwords indicate....laughingwolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08873675614347328116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-3145883072813479912012-09-25T12:43:11.278-05:002012-09-25T12:43:11.278-05:00Oh Yes!! Charles a man after my own heart. I love ...Oh Yes!! Charles a man after my own heart. I love most of these bands. Where would you place Pearl Jam and Nickelback? I think we should have a beer. And turn up the volume.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-7923053358428467392012-09-25T11:14:56.780-05:002012-09-25T11:14:56.780-05:00Great analysis, Charles, and a subject you know I ...Great analysis, Charles, and a subject you know I hold near to my heart. There is a great documentary called, <i>Metal: A Headbangers' Journey</i> that I would recommend to anyone with any interest in all this stuff at all. It's probably streamable via Netflix, I'm guessing.<br /><br />The 80s were almost defined by the links between classical and metal. Take away the hair and makeup, and a lot of those dudes could friggin' play. I saw the band Europe in Seattle in about 1986 or so, and they did a rock version of "The Flight of the Bumblebees" that ripped my face off.<br /><br />I agree on most of what you say here. Today's idea of metal I don't like at all; my roots are with Sabbath/Maiden/Priest. Other bands I grew up with -- KISS, Scorpions, Van Halen, etc. -- I'd call hard rock.<br /><br />I'd put Motley Crue in the category of bands who evolved themselves right out of where they started. Like Def Leppard. Def Leppard are commonly listed right up there as one of the original NWOBHM (New Wave of British Heavy Metal) bands like Maiden, Priest, and Motorhead. Their first couple records, <i>On Through the Night</i> and <i>High and Dry</i> are blistering rock masterpieces. They started to wobble a little bit with their first big commercial breakthrough (<i>Pyromania</i>), then progressively got worse from there. I can't listen to any of that offal. Just like Crue and their unlistenable <i>Theater of Pain</i> record. Others will argue the same with Metallica from the Black Album forward.<br /><br />Feels odd to be discussing this without a beer in my hand.<br /><br />As for prog, I hate it. Bands like Yes, King Crimson, the bad Rush albums. Ugh. I like some (early) Pink Floyd, and they certainly qualify, but that's about it.<br /><br />Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10070278104646895235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-65564263845665138432012-09-25T10:22:20.931-05:002012-09-25T10:22:20.931-05:00Erik, the first use of the term heavy metal in son...Erik, the first use of the term heavy metal in song was in Born to Be Wild by Steppenwolf, I believe. Acid rock is a kind of precursor to heavy metal I think. Jimi Hendrix certainly had a heavy metal vibe about him but the songs aren't quite there yet it seems. I think of Zepplin as generally hard rock, although they did a lot of stuff that was just unclassifiable.<br /><br />Steve Bailey, no. No I can't. :)<br /><br />Ty, the Immigrant song and When the levee breaks are pretty metal songs from Zep's repertoire. but Stairway to heaven and many others certainly are not. I tend to agree with you on them being too all over the range to be easily classifiable. Perhaps just 'rock and roll.<br /><br />Travis Cody, a lot of what I call Metal does have a melody that is played very fast and buried in the sludge, but it may be hard to find. And there are bands that just really don't have much in that way. <br /><br />G.B., I still listen mostly to this kind of music, although I like some of the new rock stuff that you hear too. The most recent metal stuff has progressed somewhat beyond my general preferences but I do listen to it at times. I've got Liquid Metal tuned on my satellite radio, as well as the Boneyard and Hair nation. Guess I'm still living in that age, and I've still got the hair for it too. :)<br /><br />Randy, I almost abandoned the Crue after Home Sweet Home hit it so big, but I do have most of their albums. Their most recent Saints of Los Angeles really has only the title song on it that is good, though, to me. Most of Zepplin certainly isn't metal, though definitely rock. Still, they really ranged through all kinds of weird things. My favorite song by them these days is When the Levee breaks, which is probably their heaviest tune.<br /><br />Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-27755537697286913422012-09-25T08:33:20.223-05:002012-09-25T08:33:20.223-05:00SHOUT AT THE DEVIL was my first Crue album and cem...SHOUT AT THE DEVIL was my first Crue album and cemented my love for the band. That I fell out after DR. FEELGOOD matters not at all.<br /><br />Another band that people mix in metal is Zeppelin. They're more hard rock, though they occasionally strayed. Even a country song or two.Randy Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16627907086811387527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-66873723437443447032012-09-25T05:37:43.700-05:002012-09-25T05:37:43.700-05:00The majority of what you've listed I used to l...The majority of what you've listed I used to listen to (exception of Motley Crue) quite a bit while growing up.<br /><br />"Highway to Hell" was one of my favorites as I more than got the inside humor of Bon Scott on this album.<br /><br />However,as I've gotten older, I find myself not really listening to this kind of rock music anymore. Sadly, it reminds me more and more of my youth and thus becomes the "classic rock" genre that I've come to loathe on most levels.<br /><br />Still, what you've listed is a great starter set for the young neophyte who may not know the background/history of what they may be listening to.<br /><br />As for what I listen to in regards to rock music, my ears are now tuned to what is being spat out on college radio, both current and the rock of yesteryear that was only popular locally.G. B. Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09783331838434598963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-2242825265590610462012-09-24T21:42:02.502-05:002012-09-24T21:42:02.502-05:00Interesting disucssion. I come at it from the per...Interesting disucssion. I come at it from the perspective of my ear.<br /><br />Simply put...if my ear can distinguish a melody and backbeat, I consider it hard rock. If my ear cannot distinguish those things, I consider it metal.<br /><br />Unscientific, yes, and without much room for debate, I guess.Travis Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06192526507760146748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-21053144186360299142012-09-24T21:41:17.570-05:002012-09-24T21:41:17.570-05:00Erik, I'm one of those people who tends to thi...Erik, I'm one of those people who tends to think Led Zeppelin is beyond traditional subjection to genre labeling. Yeah, sure, a lot of people think of them as hard rock, some even think they're heavy metal.<br /><br />Personally, the only somewhat metal Zep song I can think of is "The Immigrant Song," and maybe ... just maybe ... "Achilles Last Stand."<br /><br />Zeppelin did some hard rock music, but I think the band was much more than that, more eclectic than the credit they generally have been given. Zeppelin did blues, country, pop, folk, almost gospel, classical ... just about everything that was known at the time of their recordings.<br /><br />I don't think Plant and gang were much into the darker influences and attitudes that would define heavy metal, and really they didn't have a lot of party/rock-n-roll songs, which might boot them out of the hard rock corner, too. Still, a number of their blues tunes do have sexual undertones, and one can't dismiss "The Lemon Song" as sexual unless one is deaf. <br /><br />If I <i>had</i> to give Led Zeppelin a simplistic label, it would probably be "heavy blues."<br /><br />Sheesh, I sound like a fan boy, and I'm really not.<br /><br />Maybe. :-)Tyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09192814826756623212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-91287194345538028822012-09-24T17:36:37.131-05:002012-09-24T17:36:37.131-05:00Yes but can you tell the difference between modern...Yes but can you tell the difference between modern pop music and someone pooping?Steve Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17102677232179861276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-61045158951768018642012-09-24T17:29:35.743-05:002012-09-24T17:29:35.743-05:00Excellent ~! Looks on target to me. I remember whe...Excellent ~! Looks on target to me. I remember when I was a kid, one of my (older) sisters would often call certain bands and albums "Acid Rock," including Deep Purple and Jimi Hendrix. How would that fit into your classification? Would that be a subgenre? Also, that it was William S. Burroughs who coined the term "Heavy Metal," not to mention "Steely Dan." p.s. How about Led Zeppelin? Erik Donald Francehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02332500850365598564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-52786195663984712832012-09-24T12:59:16.766-05:002012-09-24T12:59:16.766-05:00Patti, something in opera eludes me too. :)
Ty, I...Patti, something in opera eludes me too. :)<br /><br />Ty, I think the "intent" is a bit of what I think of as attitude. I certainly do think it's possible to argue that "most" of the Crue's output has been Hard rock rather than metal. The showmanship thing is part of it, although Iron Maiden did some of that with Eddie, and with the Powerslave album. There is definitely "hate and rage" on the "Shout at the Devil" album, with lines like "taste the hate, explode in your face, the evil of all man's sins" etc. I'd also agree that Kiss is hard rock rather than metal. Most songs are about sex. Ozzy is a gray area. The anger isn't there so much, but the lyrics of songs like Suicide Solution and others definitely feel more metal to me. The Crue and Ozzy are in those gray areas between I would say.<br /><br />Prashant, Tull and Frampton have at least one foot in the hard rock ranks, although they are a bit more softer rock, I think. I like Tull a lot, and some Frampton.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-51928364168475898912012-09-24T11:28:52.908-05:002012-09-24T11:28:52.908-05:00Charles, thanks for explaining the two musical gen...Charles, thanks for explaining the two musical genres. I have listened to both, including the bands you mentioned, though I might have mixed them up. I used to listen to a lot of Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Deep Purple, and AC/DC. "Enter Sandman" was the first and only song by Metallica that I heard and it nearly blew my eardrums off. But I'll listen to "Leper Messiah" and give the band another shot. I'd forgotten all about Van Halen. I also enjoyed Jethro Tull and Peter Frampton, both rock musicians I think. Prashant C. Trikannadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16079354501998741758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-5385688055895956202012-09-24T09:57:10.385-05:002012-09-24T09:57:10.385-05:00And to add ... while looking back to the pre-metal...And to add ... while looking back to the pre-metal days of the early to mid '60s, I can see the influence rising, that "intent" I was speaking of. Eric Burden definitely has that intent in several songs, vocally and lyrically, as does Roger Daltry and a handful of others. Heck, even a Beatles song or two (though mainly from the late '60s).<br /><br />Not that I would in any way label such bands as metal, though they were precursors to metal and had an influence.Tyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09192814826756623212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-66477763155118194512012-09-24T09:51:18.386-05:002012-09-24T09:51:18.386-05:00I'm going to have to disagree about Crue. Whil...I'm going to have to disagree about Crue. While I can recognize "Shout at the Devil" as mostly a metal album, and potentially a few of the songs from "Too Fast For Love," both albums I love, I think of Neil and the boys as a hard rock band, just a notch darker than the likes of Van Halen, and much of that darkness merely showmanship along the lines of Alice Cooper. However, it's interesting that both Crue and Metallica were originally L.A. bands, playing many of the same venues.<br /><br />Maybe I look at music a little differently. For me, the difference between metal and hard rock is intent, or at least my interpretation of intent. When I listen to a (young) Hetfield, for example, I can feel the rage brewing, sometimes beneath the surface and sometimes right in your face. I don't get that same sensation from most of Crue's work. What I do take away from much of Crue is a sense of high showmanship, which I rarely if ever see or hear in metal, mainly because such showmanship rings false (selling out?) from a metal point of view.<br /><br />That's why I consider such groups as KISS and even later Ozzy as more hard rock than metal, because they're more about the showmanship.<br /><br />Not that there's anything wrong with showmanship. Hell, Van Halen has practically built a career around it, and though Eddie and gang have had their low points, they've also turned out some great tunes.<br /><br />But all of this is debatable, and by no means do I think my opinions are the only "truth."Tyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09192814826756623212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-24134589846185687902012-09-24T09:35:10.496-05:002012-09-24T09:35:10.496-05:00Sadly, these are all groups I have never really li...Sadly, these are all groups I have never really listened to. I am more the folk and soft rock sort. I am sure I could acquire an ear for it if I persevered but like opera, something music eludes me. pattinase (abbott)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02916037185235335846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-84226410709553346942012-09-24T07:35:14.177-05:002012-09-24T07:35:14.177-05:00Merisi, thankee
Deka, yeah, I think if you get al...Merisi, thankee<br /><br />Deka, yeah, I think if you get all obsessed with the labels it gets to be a problem, but as a point of discussion it can spark some interesting stuff. Not arguments but discussions.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.com