tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post8645021686008309977..comments2024-02-12T17:59:33.534-06:00Comments on RAZORED ZEN: Writers and StorytellersCharles Gramlichhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-48465802164318886262010-05-17T21:44:19.064-05:002010-05-17T21:44:19.064-05:00That is a really good point. I think it gets lost ...That is a really good point. I think it gets lost in a lot of writing circles where the writers concentrate so much on become erudite that they loose the readers.Rachel V. Olivierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993034871233904955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-42369291476607951312010-05-17T14:06:39.286-05:002010-05-17T14:06:39.286-05:00Learning a lot from LL about plot, a big weakness ...Learning a lot from LL about plot, a big weakness for me. His plots are so strong that they make you miss your connections at airports. Seriously. I don't remember a lot about his books, but I do remember not being able to put them down. Big accomplishment for anyone.Michelle's Spellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15769666862403600253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-62875906226397748112010-05-17T13:46:17.027-05:002010-05-17T13:46:17.027-05:00Clare2e. My favorite examaple of a pure storytell...Clare2e. My favorite examaple of a pure storyteller is Edgar Rice Burroughs. When you analyze his works carefully you are left shaking your head at mistakes and poor grammar and constructions. But when you just let yourself read you get locked into the story.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-22324680792669827432010-05-17T12:14:37.340-05:002010-05-17T12:14:37.340-05:00I think after some significant practice, I've ...I think after some significant practice, I've become a serviceable writer, but I dream of being of great storyteller. <br /><br />I'm not sure the second category is as much touch as feel. Writers I've worked with who have it just have it, even as I bleed blue over their typos.Clare2ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06105229820107294986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-63375905069832991322010-05-17T00:21:47.508-05:002010-05-17T00:21:47.508-05:00Cloudia, indeed. It would be nice to be so annoint...Cloudia, indeed. It would be nice to be so annointedCharles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-44830801786435800142010-05-16T23:12:03.347-05:002010-05-16T23:12:03.347-05:00Yeah, he had that "something extra" beyo...Yeah, he had that "something extra" beyond talent and story...that touch of magic!<br /><br /><br /><br />Aloha from Spring Time in Waikiki, Charles<br /><br /><br /><a href="http://comfortspiral.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Comfort Spiral</a>Cloudiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05853753108637831069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-13030920334029489502010-05-16T22:42:34.686-05:002010-05-16T22:42:34.686-05:00Scott, "Night over the Solomons" is defi...Scott, "Night over the Solomons" is definitely a very minor L'Amour work. Flint is great and Hondo good but not quite as fine. I also really like the short stuff about Bowdrie. Kind of western mysteries.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-18399035507346200252010-05-16T21:37:19.831-05:002010-05-16T21:37:19.831-05:00All this talk of L'amour and I have a hankerin...All this talk of L'amour and I have a hankering to read him. To date, I've only read one short story, the title story from "Night Over the Solomons." I went to my parent's house today and rummaged through my grandfather's box of LL books. I found Flint (based on your original post), Hondo, and Bowdrie's Law. Think I'm going to have to see what all this fuss is about.Scott D. Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15293540073601809197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-49415718906660675132010-05-16T11:17:03.456-05:002010-05-16T11:17:03.456-05:00Erik Donald France, that's definitely one thin...Erik Donald France, that's definitely one thing about L'Amour. His characters are usually black and white, and I like the shade myself. I like L'Amour's work but wouldn't want to limit myself to that.<br /><br />Middle Ditch, I've read a couple of things by Smith and enjoyed them. I've got a couple more around here too. Maybe it's time to give another one a try.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-69898600762463024602010-05-16T08:32:28.738-05:002010-05-16T08:32:28.738-05:00Opening lines are as important as the last line cl...Opening lines are as important as the last line closing a chapter. The one you chose are brilliant. My absolute favorite story teller, as supposed to novelist, is Wilbur Smith. He also has you gripped from beginning to end and you live the lives of those in the story. And that is what a good story, like a good film, is about.Middle Ditchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16493665280732775898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-90863940318214296192010-05-15T20:59:49.208-05:002010-05-15T20:59:49.208-05:00Sounds about right, my friend. Have noted this be...Sounds about right, my friend. Have noted this before, but my father is a huge L'Amour fan. <br /><br />However, I also like nuance, where things are shady. You can have both: as in Sergio Leone flicks.Erik Donald Francehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02332500850365598564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-63976851789832099452010-05-15T16:16:57.688-05:002010-05-15T16:16:57.688-05:00Travis Cody, apparently L'Amour did very littl...Travis Cody, apparently L'Amour did very little rewriting, or so he says. He certainly did write on a typewriter, which I can understand tends to cut down on one's wish to do rewrites. I still love the rewriting process myself, although, like you, I'm trying to do first drafts faster these days.<br /><br />Natasha Fondren, yes, I think we really do.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-67197410464957094402010-05-15T15:29:31.309-05:002010-05-15T15:29:31.309-05:00"We forget sometimes that most readers aren’t..."We forget sometimes that most readers aren’t writers."<br /><br />Amen. I definitely agree 100%.Spy Scribblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14299551957327543491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-16820622026017102902010-05-15T12:25:45.516-05:002010-05-15T12:25:45.516-05:00I've been thinking about your last post, and t...I've been thinking about your last post, and this one made me think even more. You're a great advocate of the rewrite as an important tool in the writer's tool kit, as am I.<br /><br />I know that one thing I struggle with in my own work is my internal editor. What I'm trying to teach myself how to do is just focus on my story when I sit down with a fresh idea. I'm trying just to write through the idea and get a good story down while shutting off the internal editor who wants to stop and polish as I go.<br /><br />After the story is told, then should come the fun of the rewrite and editing process to polish up language and make improve the writing.Travis Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06192526507760146748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-66627543723464493842010-05-15T09:38:28.848-05:002010-05-15T09:38:28.848-05:00Mark, I haven't read anything by Maclean but I...Mark, I haven't read anything by Maclean but I'll agree about Thomas. I used to know the drinking writers. Not so much now.<br /><br />laughingwolf, well one does support the tribe, whehter htey be writers or pipe fitters or what have you.<br /><br />Scott Parker, I'd agree. Dan Brown falls on the storyteller side rather than on the writer side. I think that's what a lot of people are responding to in his stuff.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-35815468803491285662010-05-15T07:56:46.335-05:002010-05-15T07:56:46.335-05:00Excellent post, Charles. I had an idea for a simil...Excellent post, Charles. I had an idea for a similiar type post for Do Some Damage...but you said it better. O like the idea you and David had about making a list of writera who are respected by peers and loved by readers. Just this week, a friend of mine commented that he loved Dan Brown's writing style (in that his books are written in a way that makes them hard to pit down). I agreed and said I knew few who openly professed love (or like) of Brown's work. It hits upon your thesis: Brown is a storyteller.Scott D. Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15293540073601809197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-51626926515625108402010-05-15T07:12:33.575-05:002010-05-15T07:12:33.575-05:00other than plumbers, the pipe trades include pipe-...other than plumbers, the pipe trades include pipe- and steam-fitters as well as instrument mechanics/technicians, so they are are a pretty bright bunch... we just choose to tease em... and they us ;) lollaughingwolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08873675614347328116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-5449749215225753192010-05-15T07:01:56.541-05:002010-05-15T07:01:56.541-05:00always, charles ;) lol
btw - have been a huge l&#...always, charles ;) lol<br /><br />btw - have been a huge l'amour fan for a long time... unlike you, have only read about 70-80% of his taleslaughingwolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08873675614347328116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-15813829209983837352010-05-15T06:50:29.230-05:002010-05-15T06:50:29.230-05:00Thomas Harris is a good writer...Norman Maclean is...Thomas Harris is a good writer...Norman Maclean is a good story teller. <br /><br />I for one never talk to writers about writing because usually when we get together they are smoked out, blown out or drunk. I think I like it that way.the walking manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10058913927297370740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-2803294324513256992010-05-14T21:22:50.604-05:002010-05-14T21:22:50.604-05:00David Cranmer, yes indeed. Maybe we should try to...David Cranmer, yes indeed. Maybe we should try to come up with a list.<br /><br />laughingwolf, payday being the most important no doubt!<br /><br />Steve Malley, it's probably easier to sell his books than my own.<br /><br />Ocean Girl, no problem. Thanks for the email though.<br /><br />ivan, I realized today as I was writing about L'Amour that he's probably even more of an influence on my storytelling than I had thought. I know I see elements of his work, especially in the Talera novels. I remember reading some author who said he would look at porn until he was highly aroused, but not masturbate, then go and write. It seemed to work for him. I might just have been Tom robbins but don't hold me to that.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-42736411928510714072010-05-14T20:56:15.191-05:002010-05-14T20:56:15.191-05:00I learned English by pretty well reading Louis L’A...I learned English by pretty well reading Louis L’Amour.<br />..That and Nicholas Gogol-- in cyrillic --under my desk while the teacher was getting me on to Seeing Spot run with Dick and Jane.<br /> Durn. Had to start school all over again after going through three cultures. Finally skipped into my proper grade, which wasn't very high--but I stayed with Louis L'Amour, and certainly Zane Grey.<br />It took me some time to understand what were Faded Levis or a Sharps rifles, or six-guns (did they have six barrels?),but I finally seemed to get it.<br />I wondered why the writing was so vivid,, so exciting so much the the picture of the rugged psychic landscape of where I wanted to be as a European kid who wanted to be a cowboy. (Every Eruopean secretly wants to be a cowboy); I had a makeshift saddle on my front porch.<br />It was certainly Louis L'Amour that had set me on fire somewhere in the West Texas of my imagination.<br />The writing was certainly reader-oriented be he wannabe bushwhacker or remustered steppe-dancer like me.<br />It was smooth, well plotted ( Miss K is going to lose her ranch and the banker want to have his way with her for here to get it back) --and most readable.<br /><br />Why? Mr. L'Amour had been rejected 300 times and self-published an equal number of times before he got it "on".<br />He certainly had the practise and he finally got the snap! Not for us weaklings!<br />Myself, I have been rejected eight times, and I fear I'll never get the snap, though here and there I'd use my clout as a columnist to force-feed something onto my magazine's fiction page.<br /><br />Show, not tell. <br />Tell. (Like an academic?)<br /><br />It's more like English Compositon vs Writin'.<br /><br />Halfway into my career I conjured, the image in the privacy of my mind, of a fiction writer being much like any number of 19th easel painters, and certainly those afterward in 21st century New York or Los Angeles.<br /><br />Get up in the morning, crank up on speed--and start creating.<br />My wonky friend the bookseller insists it's a little like sex, like Burroughs.<br />Speed and fury of the attack! And then the reward of a literary climax.<br /><br />Norman Podhoretz says he feels like masturbating after finishing an especially stirring chapter.<br />Some would say that's what all his work might be, but his MAKING IT was a major seller some decades ago.<br /><br />Making it.<br /><br />It took Louis L'Amour 300 rejections to make it?<br />And there was no sign of him being an onanist, oh no, Though L'Amour is a certainly a cool name.<br />It was the reader who got the pleasure, vicarious or no.<br /><br />I don't know what to suggest.<br /><br />Pretend you're having sex while you're writing?<br /><br />Is that the road to Writin' from English Composition?<br /><br />Heaven forbid there should be a countdown.<br /><br />5<br />4<br />3<br />2<br />1<br />Jack off?<br /><br />Well, I suppose it would be a pretty good object of the literary technique knows as overlay.<br /><br />But seriously, Charles, I haven't read that much of your work, but the key is overlay. That's where english composition turns to writin'.<br /><br />Check out overlay.<br /><br /><em>There is a slam overhead up the elevator shaft of the rocket.<br />Kelvin can make out the shape of the white-clad man above.<br />There is the the final turn of the hatch.<br />"You're just about ready to go, Kelvin."<br /><br />There is still an echo from the gantryman's voice. The gantry pulls away.<br />Commander Kelvin feels the powerful almost unearthy surge through his suit...<br />He is on his way.</em><br /><br />...That and your three excellent examples of Louis L’Amour openers.<br /><br />I think he uses overlay.<br />Threrein, I think, is the secret.ivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05662075375182633162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-54200086549057840532010-05-14T18:47:09.562-05:002010-05-14T18:47:09.562-05:00As a reader, I'm looking for a storyteller.
C...As a reader, I'm looking for a storyteller.<br /><br />Charles, I've sent you an email with regard to your book. I apologise for the none accurate info and causing you alarm.Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02399300464457820101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-85099436234186445752010-05-14T17:03:51.336-05:002010-05-14T17:03:51.336-05:00Well put. And you may have just sold a few more La...Well put. And you may have just sold a few more Lamours too... :)Steve Malleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17561234111786788616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-41072531246574156362010-05-14T15:27:37.426-05:002010-05-14T15:27:37.426-05:00bang on, buddy!
as for plumbers, like we used to ...bang on, buddy!<br /><br />as for plumbers, like we used to say when i was still working as an electrician: plumbers need to know but two things; turds roll downhill, and payday's on friday :O lollaughingwolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08873675614347328116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-78572453195336676732010-05-14T15:00:37.957-05:002010-05-14T15:00:37.957-05:00Thought provoking, as always, Charles. I'm try...Thought provoking, as always, Charles. I'm trying to think now how many authors have the respect of other writers and mass appeal. Very few.David Cranmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04749857752139212888noreply@blogger.com