tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post5290096994066114590..comments2024-02-12T17:59:33.534-06:00Comments on RAZORED ZEN: Fantasy Heroes: High FantasyCharles Gramlichhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-5660398479857123422008-04-25T13:04:00.000-05:002008-04-25T13:04:00.000-05:00Szelsofa, thanks.Laughingwolf, no problem.Szelsofa, thanks.<BR/><BR/>Laughingwolf, no problem.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-55483448445693224082008-04-20T17:24:00.000-05:002008-04-20T17:24:00.000-05:00thank you, charles... it has been a tough year for...thank you, charles... it has been a tough year for many<BR/><BR/>blessings to your friends for their losses....<BR/><BR/>-tonylaughingwolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08873675614347328116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-83979936880296638282008-04-20T14:21:00.000-05:002008-04-20T14:21:00.000-05:00Wow, I like this description a lot, Charles.Wow, I like this description a lot, Charles.SzélsőFahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11600289147447182465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-77775912826745924312008-04-20T00:56:00.000-05:002008-04-20T00:56:00.000-05:00Travis, I have the Eddings books but just have nev...Travis, I have the Eddings books but just have never gotten around to reading them. I do believe there are some good things and some weak things about both types of fiction but they each have many fans.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-64128778051279316542008-04-19T19:27:00.000-05:002008-04-19T19:27:00.000-05:00The characteristics you name, and those of the com...The characteristics you name, and those of the commenters here, are particularly why I am more drawn to high or epic fantasy. <BR/><BR/>LOTR is the most ready example, and one most people recognize. Another good example is David Eddings Belgariad and Mallorean, or any other stories crafted by the team of Leigh and David Eddings.<BR/><BR/>Two other good examples would be the works of Raymond Feist and Steven Brust.Travis Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06192526507760146748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-47940354049847690562008-04-19T19:20:00.000-05:002008-04-19T19:20:00.000-05:00laughingwolf, I'm sorry to hear about your father....laughingwolf, I'm sorry to hear about your father. I wish you well. My father died in April, but many years ago. I posted a poem about him called "April Again" on March 30, I think. Two of my friends have lost their fathers this year so it's been a tough one so far.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-54835193092135867122008-04-19T18:04:00.000-05:002008-04-19T18:04:00.000-05:00thx for dropping over, charlessince my dad died in...thx for dropping over, charles<BR/><BR/>since my dad died in february, i have not been in the mood to write a thing<BR/><BR/>once i see thu the fog, i'll be at it again....laughingwolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08873675614347328116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-74215360233936886652008-04-19T16:09:00.000-05:002008-04-19T16:09:00.000-05:00Randy, I tend to prefer Sword & sorcery to High Fa...Randy, I tend to prefer Sword & sorcery to High Fantasy as well. Sometimes those multi-character epics just really get tiresome to me. The only other high fantasy I really enjoyed was Stephen Donaldson's Thomas Covenent series.<BR/><BR/>Miladysa, I sometimes wonder if high fantasy appeals more to women and sword and sorcery more to men.<BR/><BR/>Laughingwolf, thank you. I'll stop by your spot as well.<BR/><BR/>Enemy of the Republic, certainly, if you'd like to link to me please do. I will link to you as well. Thanks for stopping by. I believe that the Wizard of OZ is definitely closer to the High fantasy concept.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-43265684290936231772008-04-19T12:07:00.000-05:002008-04-19T12:07:00.000-05:00May I link your blog. I'm a fantasy nut and I've w...May I link your blog. I'm a fantasy nut and I've written posts about the stories in the past. I tend to stick to LOTR (book and film) and Star Wars, but recently one of my students told me to look at the archetypes of the Wizard of Oz. I will come back and do your post justice. Right now on my blog, I am being more personal--I'd like to get away when I am finally out from shadow.Enemy of the Republichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17342253341470198835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-10491093306906536512008-04-19T08:02:00.000-05:002008-04-19T08:02:00.000-05:00i'm here thx to miladysa... and very pleased to me...i'm here thx to miladysa... and very pleased to meet you...<BR/><BR/>you have a lot of amazing friends, too :)laughingwolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08873675614347328116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-25806262790394001242008-04-19T06:11:00.000-05:002008-04-19T06:11:00.000-05:00There are plenty of other heroic figures, but I al...There are plenty of other heroic figures, but I always think of Frodo as the hero of Lord of the Rings.Leigh Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15080517449825380527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-88001254736181410992008-04-19T06:00:00.000-05:002008-04-19T06:00:00.000-05:00Another enoyable post :-DI love High Fantasy and a...Another enoyable post :-D<BR/><BR/>I love High Fantasy and am not sure how much Sword and Socery I have actually read.<BR/><BR/>To me, High Fantasy always seems to have a lot of history to it, the tale usually starts off about half way or perhaps even three quarters of the way through the adventure taking place in the book you are reading.Miladysahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08065128196666157541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-65803099840664570442008-04-19T04:08:00.000-05:002008-04-19T04:08:00.000-05:00I'm not a big fan of High Fantasy. It seems I have...I'm not a big fan of High Fantasy. It seems I have a low threshold of boredom. I've read The Hobbit and LOR several times(The Hobbit more), but nothing else by Tolkien. The Wheel of Time I stopped after three books. Goodkind's series after two, George R.R. Martin after one. You'll notice a downward spiral. I've concluded the problem's me and not the quality of the writing. To many people read and are enthusiastic about these books for me to come to any other thought. I can't explain it.Randy Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16627907086811387527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-21625204582700609092008-04-18T23:42:00.000-05:002008-04-18T23:42:00.000-05:00Ivan, I always liked how the Ewoks lived in trees....Ivan, I always liked how the Ewoks lived in trees.<BR/><BR/>X-Dell, well if you ever saw the Conan movies with Arnold you've seen a sword & sorcery character certainly. The comic book character "Thor" would probably illustrate this. I wouldn't put Superman there because he is too law abiding and rule based. The Hulk would have some of the characteristics as well.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-86393509759551713522008-04-18T15:54:00.000-05:002008-04-18T15:54:00.000-05:00Since I have seen Star Wars, and have read a coupl...Since I have seen <I>Star Wars</I>, and have read a couple of books in the <I>Lord of the Rings</I> series, I think I have a good grasp of what you mean by High Fantasy. This subject matter is a bit beyond my ken, however, so I'm curious as to who, in more general literature, would be a character more illustrative of Sword and Sorcery. The closest I could come up with, off the top of my head, would be Superman, and I'm sure he's inappropriate.X. Dellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17561609651507566271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-52455084312756711032008-04-18T15:16:00.000-05:002008-04-18T15:16:00.000-05:00Well, I kind of dug the first para of The Hobbit."...Well, I kind of dug the first para of The Hobbit.<BR/>"In a hole, there lived a hobbit."<BR/><BR/>Hey, I think I finally know who I am.<BR/>But there are these<EM> ewok</EM>-like tendencies.<BR/>Tend to chatter, and carry a small spear.<BR/>Trying to be George Lukas.ivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05662075375182633162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-26495301469045001962008-04-18T15:05:00.000-05:002008-04-18T15:05:00.000-05:00Billy, thanks, glad you are enjoying.Shauna, I gen...Billy, thanks, glad you are enjoying.<BR/><BR/>Shauna, I generally agree. I think part of the issue is that High fantasy stories usually feature most or all of the story arc for a Campbell hero while S & S gives a viewpoint of the hero only at one point of that arc. It may be that it doesn't look like Campbell because it's only a segment.<BR/><BR/>Writtenwyrd, I like the self-sacrificing elements as well. See my response above to Shauna about the mythic elements.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-86337710645462080492008-04-18T14:11:00.000-05:002008-04-18T14:11:00.000-05:00I think Shauna has a point about Campbell's Hero's...I think Shauna has a point about Campbell's Hero's journey. I thought that as well. Mythic tropes find their way into high fantasy quests. All that 'saving the world from ultimate evil' stuff sort of attracts it, lol.<BR/><BR/>I love epic fantasy primarily because of the heroic and self-sacrificing tropes.writtenwyrddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02280711822302493122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-6179889867161086572008-04-18T13:55:00.000-05:002008-04-18T13:55:00.000-05:00It sounds as if the high fantasy story fits Joseph...It sounds as if the high fantasy story fits Joseph Campbell's hero's journey closely, while the S&S story doesn't. Would you agree?Shauna Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03871768714926149114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-40197703148616771332008-04-18T13:54:00.000-05:002008-04-18T13:54:00.000-05:00This is a great series you're doing. Frodo and Sk...This is a great series you're doing. Frodo and Skyewalker--perfect examples.WHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14815646433314236886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-75314830716555145442008-04-18T13:14:00.000-05:002008-04-18T13:14:00.000-05:00Bernita, I would tend to put it there, although I ...Bernita, I would tend to put it there, although I haven't actually read any of those books. It looks more Tolkienesque than Howardesque to me, though.<BR/><BR/>Writtenwyrd, good point. I tried to indicate that slightly with my point about how the hero has to take into account weaknesses of the group but I could expand on that quite a bit and make it more specific.<BR/><BR/>Candy, thankee.<BR/><BR/>SQT, I agree. Very much so.<BR/><BR/>Erik, good point. With an ensemble group you have a chance to kill some heroes.<BR/><BR/>Steve, I should probably add that for sure. I don't really like that kind of thing but it is a characteristic.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-17490107561501410902008-04-18T12:28:00.000-05:002008-04-18T12:28:00.000-05:00One thing I'd add is what Tolkien called the eucat...One thing I'd add is what Tolkien called the eucatastrophe--at a point when everything looks hopeless,somethings happens to turn the situation around for the better--"The eagles are coming!"steve on the slow trainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18257811143869341854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-1778428414890787962008-04-18T12:09:00.000-05:002008-04-18T12:09:00.000-05:00Cool. I guess it's worth noting that in epic "High...Cool. I guess it's worth noting that in epic "High fantasy," there's more room for killing off some of the heroes along the way.<BR/><BR/>This could be said of epic "non fantasy" war stories, too.Erik Donald Francehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02332500850365598564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-4175471324562630162008-04-18T11:39:00.000-05:002008-04-18T11:39:00.000-05:00I always thought David Eddings followed the High F...I always thought David Eddings followed the High Fantasy formula to the letter. <BR/><BR/>The enemy also always seems to be kind of the ultimate evil. Not a lot of ambiguity between good and evil in these books-- real life should be so easy.SQThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04251030404220909306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-16003319886822183782008-04-18T10:36:00.000-05:002008-04-18T10:36:00.000-05:00Interesting insight.Interesting insight.cs harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13708705800818667923noreply@blogger.com