tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post514410195020411957..comments2024-02-12T17:59:33.534-06:00Comments on RAZORED ZEN: Storytelling Versus WritingCharles Gramlichhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-76630429178905030842008-06-08T15:24:00.000-05:002008-06-08T15:24:00.000-05:00Wow. This made me think long and hard. I guess I'm...Wow. This made me think long and hard. I guess I'm still striving to be a good storyteller, while making sure the writing is as strong as possible.Farrah Rochonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13734081434172632431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-20598812285071611592008-06-07T16:13:00.000-05:002008-06-07T16:13:00.000-05:00I struggle with storytelling, which is yet another...I struggle with storytelling, which is yet another thing that is wrong with my novel project. A series of well written scenes doesn't go anywhere. It's not a story.<BR/><BR/>I think that's why I tend to run back to poetry. Crafting a poem feeds the writer in me. <BR/><BR/>But I do need to work more on my story skills, otherwise I'll never finish my project and that is not an acceptable outcome.Travis Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06192526507760146748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-45663863680592337392008-06-07T11:22:00.000-05:002008-06-07T11:22:00.000-05:00Writtenwyrd, that's 'half' the battle. Lol.Writtenwyrd, that's 'half' the battle. Lol.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-78701155989682424062008-06-07T09:30:00.000-05:002008-06-07T09:30:00.000-05:00I agree Charles--storytelling is much more difficu...I agree Charles--storytelling is much more difficult. I'm still figuring it out, but I can write some great prose. At least I've got half of it right, lol.writtenwyrddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02280711822302493122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-20082865061313022602008-06-07T01:49:00.000-05:002008-06-07T01:49:00.000-05:00Avery, that's the problem I had with "Blood Meridi...Avery, that's the problem I had with "Blood Meridian." Truly there was some beautiful writing but no story that I could find.<BR/><BR/>Donnetta, I think I've gotten much better as a storyteller over time, but it is hard to meld the two at just the right level.<BR/><BR/>Laughingwolf, I use to always add embelishments for my son Josh when I was reading him a story too.<BR/><BR/>Heff, no problem.<BR/><BR/>Rachel, Right on!<BR/><BR/>Stewart Sternberg, yeah, come to think of it, there are some pretty good stories that have turned into culture.<BR/><BR/>Josephine, I've seen that style for style sake and it just leaves me cold. It sometimes garners a following, though.<BR/><BR/>Danny Tagalong, I like that kind of word play, and especially surrealistic writing, but it has to be fairly short. If it's longer than a page or two I'm looking for some story.<BR/><BR/>Greg Schwartz, it also depends on how big an audience you want to reach. Some very experimental work with great prose but not much story might sell in the small press and I myself like to read that sort of thing. But it's not gonna sell to a large audience. That's neither good nor bad. Depends on what you want.<BR/><BR/>Lana, thank you sweety.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-67495087485793528672008-06-07T00:39:00.000-05:002008-06-07T00:39:00.000-05:00I didn't even understand the difference until I re...I didn't even understand the difference until I read your post. Thanks for clarifying. You rock.Lana Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06975996208260144558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-21437512341774323662008-06-06T21:55:00.000-05:002008-06-06T21:55:00.000-05:00great post, Charles. it seems so many writers are...great post, Charles. it seems so many writers are more concerned with words that sound good than with the quality of the story. i think a lot of writers (myself included, on occasion) think that if you "package" a story well enough, you can overcome a weakness of plot or character, which usually doesn't happen.Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15344808703550376121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-6984409771298783522008-06-06T21:19:00.000-05:002008-06-06T21:19:00.000-05:00What Josephine just said is so true. I rememember...What Josephine just said is so true. I rememember queueing up in Birmingham to meet Arundahati Roy and get my book signed, when she was being heavily promoted by Radio 4/the BBC, but her story went where?<BR/><BR/>Still, I also like abstract wordplay that verge on beauty, but yes - often I guess, writers get too lazy to achieve the required clarity within their prose and stories.Danny Tagaloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15899578338574197919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-72939715363408899822008-06-06T20:31:00.000-05:002008-06-06T20:31:00.000-05:00I stopped reading "The God of Small Things" becaus...I stopped reading "The God of Small Things" because while it offered gorgeous prose, there was no story.<BR/><BR/>I also just stopped reading a whodunit classic by Agatha Christie because of adverbs - great story - poor writing. <BR/><BR/>I also see a lot of wannabes indulging in what I call "style for the sake of style" - too many dramtic turns of phrase designed to impress, but it rends to bog down the story telling. <BR/><BR/>There's a host of mistakes writer's make whether they're writers or storytellers.<BR/><BR/>Since plotting is my strong suit, I tend to think of myself more as a storyteller. I doubt I'll ever be famous for my prose.Josephine Damianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17952030380866201241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-36320939646873528562008-06-06T20:28:00.000-05:002008-06-06T20:28:00.000-05:00I think that's an interesting posting. Jon Zech an...I think that's an interesting posting. Jon Zech and I will often get a friendly rivalry going. He will claim himself the better writer, but acknowledge me as the better storyteller.<BR/><BR/>Storytellers...go back a long way. They were the ones who created religion and kept it going. They inspired government, sexual fetishes, and have kept MSW's in pocket money for quite some time.<BR/><BR/>Here's to us.Stewart Sternberg (half of L.P. Styles)https://www.blogger.com/profile/00895152179113722902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-29968675432687365962008-06-06T18:35:00.000-05:002008-06-06T18:35:00.000-05:00Yeah, what you said.Yeah, what you said.Rachel V. Olivierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993034871233904955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-9919230424952047032008-06-06T14:16:00.000-05:002008-06-06T14:16:00.000-05:00I've noticed typos seem to become rampant with age...I've noticed typos seem to become rampant with age. Feel free to correct mine when I fuck up as well.Heffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13396114362826135207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-30378489826421315382008-06-06T14:06:00.000-05:002008-06-06T14:06:00.000-05:00agreed... i used to entertain my kids, when still ...agreed... i used to entertain my kids, when still young, first by reading, then re-telling the tales from my perspective... they had a good laugh at the inventions i added<BR/><BR/>in songs, as well....laughingwolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08873675614347328116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-57199627568142704032008-06-06T13:33:00.000-05:002008-06-06T13:33:00.000-05:00Charles: I was thinking along these lines just a f...Charles: I was thinking along these lines just a few days ago. You must be reading my mind. I think, when I was young, I was a terrific story teller. It helped my family get through some tough times. Then, as I grew older, I became more interested in actual writing. The struggle is: how to reconcile these two aspects. And that is what I'm needing to learn and perfect. I'd say you were there! Interesting post.<BR/>DonnettaDonnettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14831771508607746472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-65364688544606957132008-06-06T12:47:00.000-05:002008-06-06T12:47:00.000-05:00A writer can spin out beautiful prose all day long...A writer can spin out beautiful prose all day long, but if there isn't a solid story backing it, all he or she will end up with is three hundred pages of stunning, poetic yammering--a work as beautiful and functionless as a Faberge egg.AvDBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16574481780173046619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-46316765629984798112008-06-06T11:10:00.000-05:002008-06-06T11:10:00.000-05:00Mark, glad you found something useful in it.Laughi...Mark, glad you found something useful in it.<BR/><BR/>Laughingwolf, I think the idea of Oral storytelling has been revived somewhat and I hope that continues. It's kind of stressful to do it sometimes. Writers like to send their stuff out to be read, but not have to read them or "Tell" them themselves.<BR/><BR/>Bernita, thankee.<BR/><BR/>Heff, doh, I'm sort of dense. I didn't see your deliberate misspelling. I'll correct it. Story Yelling has a ring to it, though.<BR/><BR/>Gabby, I've noticed that in myself, that when I worry less about the prose the story sometimes improves, but then the prose goes to pot.<BR/><BR/>Michelle, I admire to some extent that "glass" prose, the prose that is virtually invisible so that only the story shows through. I can't do it myself, for sure.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-24960403914417107892008-06-06T10:33:00.000-05:002008-06-06T10:33:00.000-05:00Hey Charles,I hear you on this one! My God, did I...Hey Charles,<BR/><BR/>I hear you on this one! My God, did I have a terrible time writing a story (and still do at times). I didn't understand that a nervous breakdown that nobody sees or understands isn't a story. :) But as a reader, I love good stories so I eventually learned from reading. One person who does both really well is Larry McMurtry. His books are like crack cocaine in that way -- completely brilliant easy prose and a story that won't let you go. I pray I get somewhere close to a marriage of the two elements at some point.Michelle's Spellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15769666862403600253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-71715089382502465162008-06-06T10:03:00.000-05:002008-06-06T10:03:00.000-05:00Am I lucky in knowing that my storytelling skills ...Am I lucky in knowing that my storytelling skills have always been my downfall? I know I'm not so great at it. Changing that, though, is a little harder. Interestingly enough, several years ago when I wrote my NaNoWriMo novel, I was so pressed for time that I dropped the "writing" aspect and got the story out. It's poorly written, but the story is there (though the end was rushed, as was I). It needs huge edits and many re-writes, but there are a few rough stones amid the jumble that I feel I've managed to polish into visual gems.Gabbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03450353611177198529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-8176285339226305182008-06-06T09:41:00.000-05:002008-06-06T09:41:00.000-05:00I was actually trying to tell you that you left th...I was actually trying to tell you that you left the second "T" out of "storytelling' on your post title, but OK.Heffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13396114362826135207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-15652045599442082932008-06-06T07:30:00.000-05:002008-06-06T07:30:00.000-05:00Charles, I agree completely.Charles, I agree completely.Bernitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05264585685253812090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-41203899522736560202008-06-06T07:02:00.000-05:002008-06-06T07:02:00.000-05:00cbc radio used to broadcast oral storytelling by f...cbc radio used to broadcast oral storytelling by folk from all over the world, a few years ago... i was glued to them<BR/><BR/>hope that becomes a tradition, but i've not heard about it for about a while :(laughingwolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08873675614347328116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-29080367791651377622008-06-06T03:19:00.000-05:002008-06-06T03:19:00.000-05:00Truly the difficulty in being a writer is that it ...Truly the difficulty in being a writer is that it is not a time for the left hand to not know what the right is doing. But as it is with all things, the craft is developed with practice, an eye that isn't blind to criticism, and an imagination willing to forgo the rules of language.<BR/><BR/>It is an interesting post Charles in that directly I never thought about the difference between writing and story telling. Now I will have to go back and look.<BR/><BR/>Peacethe walking manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10058913927297370740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-4368980596225386282008-06-06T01:11:00.000-05:002008-06-06T01:11:00.000-05:00Sidney, that's a pretty good idea. I do enjoy tel...Sidney, that's a pretty good idea. I do enjoy telling oral stories, but I really like doing it in the right conditions, around a campfire or something like that.<BR/><BR/>Steve, I'm glad you found the post useful. That's definitely something we all need to keep in mind.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-45017721381901199372008-06-05T22:10:00.000-05:002008-06-05T22:10:00.000-05:00Charles, this is simply a brilliant post. I've nev...Charles, this is simply a brilliant post. I've never thought about writing in these terms,but it's clear that there is a difference. I'm lousy at oral storytelling, unless I've written it out in the first place.<BR/><BR/>Writing a novel in the Dickens Challenge, one chapter a week (well, not lately, but that was the original idea), can mean that the story gets lost in the drive to follow up on the previous chapter. When I get to then end, and start looking at the novel as a whole, I need to remind myself that I'm telling a story.steve on the slow trainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18257811143869341854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-22545761053383068652008-06-05T21:20:00.000-05:002008-06-05T21:20:00.000-05:00Conan really seemed like a tale told over a camp f...Conan really seemed like a tale told over a camp fire. Maybe we should have more camp fire gatherings, or a virtual one in Second Life to keep in practice.Sidneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16284680909152676159noreply@blogger.com