tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post4433630523958980698..comments2024-02-12T17:59:33.534-06:00Comments on RAZORED ZEN: Creating Characters Part 2: StereotypesCharles Gramlichhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-16471913006228639672008-11-25T08:48:00.000-06:002008-11-25T08:48:00.000-06:00J. L., twists like that often do work very well.J. L., twists like that often do work very well.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-62683851167840476612008-11-21T06:06:00.000-06:002008-11-21T06:06:00.000-06:00Charles,Still catching up!What I think is sometime...Charles,<BR/><BR/>Still catching up!<BR/><BR/>What I think is sometimes neat about using stereotypes in writing is to have the character go against type. <BR/><BR/>Get the reader thinking about the character one way based upon the stereotyped visualization, then reveal the "real" person beneath in the course of the story.J. L. Kruegerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03335606939334631954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-72496984158643900342008-11-20T07:57:00.000-06:002008-11-20T07:57:00.000-06:00Virginia lady, exactly. But folks often assume so...Virginia lady, exactly. But folks often assume someone who goes to gun shows is a gun nut. Stereotypes are always dicey affairs, inescapable under certain circumstances, but often dangerous.<BR/><BR/>Barbara Martin, there was a gun rack in almost all the pickups I rode in or drove as a kid/teenager.<BR/><BR/>Michelle, yeah, it's kind of strange how "real" events can be unbelievable if told in fiction. Fiction has such a delicate line between holding and losing the reader.<BR/><BR/>Sarah Hina, I'd like another bike too, but after totalling three of 'em I think I'm going to fight the urge.<BR/><BR/>L.A. Mitchell, thanks. It's definitely a tightrope act.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-82750055831273482212008-11-19T15:49:00.000-06:002008-11-19T15:49:00.000-06:00Finding the perfect balance between a fresh charac...Finding the perfect balance between a fresh character and one that rings true is always a challenge. I've enjoyed your two posts on stereotypes.L.A. Mitchellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11729129827211991040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-11661260469206198992008-11-19T14:30:00.000-06:002008-11-19T14:30:00.000-06:00Great illustration of a common smallness of thinki...Great illustration of a common smallness of thinking, Charles. <BR/><BR/>I want a motorcycle...Sarah Hinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13888406261817690010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-56071960951532902462008-11-19T11:23:00.000-06:002008-11-19T11:23:00.000-06:00This is a tremendously insightful post. I think i...This is a tremendously insightful post. I think it's a tough thing for a writer to walk the line between what's believable, what seems a little too pat, and also just making reality credible. People used to think I made things up until a visit to old Casa Brooks back in the day when my parents were alive made them say, Umm, okay, you're playing everything down. You really don't have to write fiction -- just record what's here. But the problem with fiction is that you do have to take into account the credibility factor. That's why I use the strangest stuff in my life for nonfiction. But I do love both forms!Michelle's Spellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15769666862403600253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-4706467279563275682008-11-18T20:58:00.000-06:002008-11-18T20:58:00.000-06:00Bending a stereotype makes sense. I know I don't f...Bending a stereotype makes sense. I know I don't fit the one people have made of me, especially Patti Abbott: I owned and drove a pickup with a gunrack before my arrival to eastern Canada.Barbara Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00610140328527165017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-89037540877303948432008-11-18T14:38:00.000-06:002008-11-18T14:38:00.000-06:00I hate using stereotypes for just that reason. Th...I hate using stereotypes for just that reason. There are rarely any true-to-type stereotypes, but you can use them to make a reader better grasp a character and where they're coming from. You just need to be careful not to overdo it.<BR/><BR/>As for that El Camino lust, I have a husband that wouldn't mind owning one so I won't hold it against you. Thanks, but I'll stick with my pickup until I can go back to a two-seater sports car.<BR/><BR/>Another point to stereotypes, depends on the stage of life the character is in. Someone with multiple kids isn't likely to be driving a miata all the time and just because someone's packing heat doesn't mean they're a gun nut.Virginia Ladyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16641613214603672322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-7265626308034611682008-11-18T07:53:00.000-06:002008-11-18T07:53:00.000-06:00Scott, I also bought a cavalry saber.Eric1313, goo...Scott, I also bought a cavalry saber.<BR/><BR/>Eric1313, good point about the stereotyped characters setting off our more rounded ones. Much appreciated.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-7139869646966222882008-11-18T06:09:00.000-06:002008-11-18T06:09:00.000-06:00Right on.The stereotypical characters are crucial ...Right on.<BR/><BR/>The stereotypical characters are crucial to providing the gauge by which our "round" characters are judged within the context of a story.<BR/><BR/>We always need them, they have a purpose.<BR/><BR/>And truly, where would epic stories be without the ultimate stereotypes: Archetypes. Hell, any story, epic or mundane, fantastic or ultra-real.<BR/><BR/>You don't have a bad post do you?eric1313https://www.blogger.com/profile/13807078704660045859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-89144513058535896732008-11-17T23:18:00.000-06:002008-11-17T23:18:00.000-06:00Charles, I like the fact that you bought a machet...Charles, <BR/><BR/> I like the fact that you bought a machete...blades don't run out of ammo!Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09726570487056061877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-9355548967013937792008-11-17T22:23:00.000-06:002008-11-17T22:23:00.000-06:00Fancy, wow, thanks very much. I appreciate the th...Fancy, wow, thanks very much. I appreciate the thought.<BR/><BR/>Middle ditch, glad you found it useful. <BR/><BR/>Sarai, I think writing has to both break rules and follow rules. The trick is in figuring out which ones to follow and which ones to break.<BR/><BR/>Shauna, I've gotten some great commentary for sure. My last post triggered quite a few comments as well.<BR/><BR/>Laughingwolf, cool. I'll check it out.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-76394003057778325942008-11-17T15:46:00.000-06:002008-11-17T15:46:00.000-06:00ye see the WOLF bike i posted a bit ago?ye see the WOLF bike i posted a bit ago?laughingwolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08873675614347328116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-42464325771449964812008-11-17T15:28:00.000-06:002008-11-17T15:28:00.000-06:00Thanks for a great post. I have nothing illuminati...Thanks for a great post. I have nothing illuminating to add on this issue; I sit humbly at the feet of you and your commenters.Shauna Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03871768714926149114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-21366811319783264532008-11-17T14:30:00.000-06:002008-11-17T14:30:00.000-06:00Interesting point. If I did it for myself I would ...Interesting point. If I did it for myself I would break a bunch of rules but when I look at my writing I tend to stick to the sterotypes I know... words to chew on.Saraihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00203551997160640352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-24113586468142629212008-11-17T14:05:00.000-06:002008-11-17T14:05:00.000-06:00Mmmmm, very thought provoking for me. Food for tho...Mmmmm, very thought provoking for me. Food for thought. Great post Charles and so was the previous one which was equally thought provoking. The gradual bending appeals to me.<BR/><BR/>lolMiddle Ditchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16493665280732775898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-47716169244426150322008-11-17T13:24:00.000-06:002008-11-17T13:24:00.000-06:00Com'n over and pic up your award in my place :)Com'n over and pic up your award in my place :)FANCYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02608983168583167889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-87195539272200390322008-11-17T12:51:00.000-06:002008-11-17T12:51:00.000-06:00ChrisEldin, Good advice, although making them uniq...ChrisEldin, Good advice, although making them unique in every way may not always work.<BR/><BR/>Benjibopper, there's definitely power in that kind of writing.<BR/><BR/>Candy, I do think you have to "lead" the reader, at least most readers.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-49438747162452939662008-11-17T11:52:00.000-06:002008-11-17T11:52:00.000-06:00Thought I recognized that guy! I like stereotypes...Thought I recognized that guy! I like stereotypes that have an unexpected twist in them, but I think you're right--it needs to be introduced VERY early, so that it comes as an almost humorous twist. Otherwise it feels like a betrayal.cs harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13708705800818667923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-86752058232579786532008-11-17T11:48:00.000-06:002008-11-17T11:48:00.000-06:00when a writer can draw you into a stereotype and t...when a writer can draw you into a stereotype and then surprise you with a character's actions, if it's done well it can be a lot of fun. stereotype or not, the characters i like best are the ones that are varied - heroes at times, weak at others, noble at times, cruel at others. and i think that is how most real people are too.Chris Benjaminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00402945887045545024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-44376255272216784412008-11-17T11:47:00.000-06:002008-11-17T11:47:00.000-06:00Ha! I KNEW it was you!!The first and best piece of...Ha! I KNEW it was you!!<BR/><BR/>The first and best piece of writing advice I was given was to make the characters unique.<BR/><BR/>:-)Chris Eldinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794946908789120139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-9268843013622359772008-11-17T11:06:00.000-06:002008-11-17T11:06:00.000-06:00Precie, I imagine folks would accept some stereoty...Precie, I imagine folks would accept some stereotype breaking from the Joe character but I do think it illustrates how folks' minds naturally go.<BR/><BR/>Lana, I'm glad I'm cute at least.<BR/><BR/>Aine, I think people are generally surprised at folks when they really get to know them. None of us fits the perfect stereotype.<BR/><BR/>Heff, if the holster fits, dude.<BR/><BR/>Writtenwyrd, yeah, pickups are handy for a lot of things, but gas mileage isn't one of them.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-5095802850493414212008-11-17T10:13:00.000-06:002008-11-17T10:13:00.000-06:00That should have said "they are NOT environmentall...That should have said "they are NOT environmentally friendly," lol!writtenwyrddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02280711822302493122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-59446100005543964822008-11-17T10:12:00.000-06:002008-11-17T10:12:00.000-06:00I'm from California and I'm about as left-wing lib...I'm from California and I'm about as left-wing liberal as they come, but I love me those big ol' pickups, yes I do. I don't own one because they are environmentally friendly, but I did have a huge Dodge 3/4 ton when I was younger. <BR/><BR/>Lana, you cracked me up! My father, who is from North Carolina, has had what amounts to a freaking fetish about El Caminos.writtenwyrddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02280711822302493122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-15581402760019096882008-11-17T09:30:00.000-06:002008-11-17T09:30:00.000-06:00Should I feel offended by this post ? Lol !Should I feel offended by this post ? Lol !Heffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13396114362826135207noreply@blogger.com