tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post7713526935985804232..comments2024-02-12T17:59:33.534-06:00Comments on RAZORED ZEN: Series Fiction: Pros and ConsCharles Gramlichhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-44136079315591445132008-06-06T11:37:00.000-05:002008-06-06T11:37:00.000-05:00Jon, oh I agree, I never want more than three para...Jon, oh I agree, I never want more than three paragraphs at most for a "What has gone before." I think mine have gotten tighter across the series.<BR/><BR/>Ello, I was pretty upset about my errors at first but have become more accepting over the last few days. It still irritates me. No matter how much you check something creeps in.<BR/><BR/>Barbara, thanks. I'll put your blog into my google reader so I can keep up with your posts as well.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-82417126062373409722008-06-05T23:05:00.000-05:002008-06-05T23:05:00.000-05:00I like to read series, particularly ones where the...I like to read series, particularly ones where the characters have intrigued me. Last year I was introduced to the Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child books. They have written mostly stand-alone books, but a few could be listed in the series category. Each of the books have one or more returning characters with only a mere mention of their relationship to another book or situation.<BR/><BR/>With Robert Jordan's series, The Wheel of Time, I was given books 7 and 8. When I began book 7, I managed to read about a third of it before giving up. The story was difficult to get through as there wasn't enough backstory for me to understand what was going on. I began at the beginning, learned the foundation of the story and the following books fell into place.<BR/><BR/>Your blog has just the refreshing approach to the writing craft I like, and I certainly will be returning frequently to see what you've posted next. Great blogs.Barbara Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00610140328527165017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-9403802352834070452008-06-04T09:25:00.000-05:002008-06-04T09:25:00.000-05:00Hmmm I thought I commented on this one. I can't re...Hmmm I thought I commented on this one. I can't remember what I said! <BR/><BR/>But I don't think having these errors are problematic. I think you just move forward with the correction and not worry about it. And I love glossaries also. But it is so normal to have some errors, even with several beta readers. We are all only human.Ello - Ellen Ohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18311917335471167591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-12508995157776159772008-06-04T02:42:00.000-05:002008-06-04T02:42:00.000-05:00I experienced something yesterday which immediatel...I experienced something yesterday which immediately reminded me of this post in your blog.<BR/><BR/>I picked up a book called "Fortress of Owls" by C J Cherryh who is one of my favourite authors. My mistake was picking a book which I now realize is part way through a series.<BR/><BR/>The book starts with a dense 13 (count them!) 13 page summary of what sounds like an really complicated story so far, and its awful! Its quite put me off continuing.<BR/><BR/>Because its C J Cherryh I might go out and buy the first in the series, but it certainly hasn't put me in the mood to start half way through.<BR/><BR/>If you're going to start with a "What has gone before" you should definitely keep it to a paragraph or two.<BR/><BR/>- JonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-27671072046797245422008-06-03T16:46:00.000-05:002008-06-03T16:46:00.000-05:00Shauna, I find glossaries useful too, and fun. I ...Shauna, I find glossaries useful too, and fun. I think The Wheel of Time series kind of put a lot of folks off reading Fantasy series because it was never ending.<BR/><BR/>Sam, I like a good complex world, but I don't want the author to slow the action down too much.<BR/><BR/>Benjibopper, I actually did two different series of short stories back in the 90s, one about a vampire character and the other a sword and sorcery series. I do find them particularly intersting in fantasy where you have a big world to explore.<BR/><BR/>Randy Johnson, I agree that it depends a lot on the series. The Sacketts was very good because there were a lot of different characters. It was more of a family series than a single hero series. I read probably three or four of those "adult" westerns years ago and I never quite got the point because the stories were pretty poor and, like you say, if I wanted to read porn I wouldn't be picking up something for the "story."Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-63992880166916945972008-06-03T16:27:00.000-05:002008-06-03T16:27:00.000-05:00My feelings about series depends on the series I g...My feelings about series depends on the series I guess. I've read a few that are endlessly interesting and others that make me feel as if the writer is phoning it in for a paycheck, so to speak. That's when I bail out fast.<BR/>I never grew tired of the Sacketts for example, as L'Amour had a large enough cast that the focus wasn't on the same character every time out. That kept me intersted.<BR/>Another series(I won't mention the author or character) seemed to be descending into porn and from what I've read on the internet, the books only got worse.<BR/>I'll say the same about the proliferation of western porn years ago. If I want to read porn, I'll get a porn novel. If I want to read horror, I'll find a horror novel. Don't mix them.Of course, that said, when I learned James Reasoner was writing some of them, I tried a few. They were up to his usual good writing standards, but they'll still never be my favorites of his work.Randy Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16627907086811387527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-64335447398648890902008-06-03T15:30:00.000-05:002008-06-03T15:30:00.000-05:00i've never written a series, and i don't know if i...i've never written a series, and i don't know if i could. i can only think of cons actually. after all the work and re-work of writing and editing and re-writing and editing more, all the feedback and improving, by the time i finish a short story, let alone a book, i can't touch it, can't even read it again. time to move on. and i have so many other ideas, different styles, i want to try and experiment with. a series would be very hard for me. <BR/><BR/>i admire your discipline to stick with it, and it seems you've done a great job and have a fan base. <BR/><BR/>judging by fantasy and scifi fans i've known, you'd better keep things consistent - better consistently in error than inconsistent.Chris Benjaminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00402945887045545024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-77820049285543711652008-06-03T13:10:00.000-05:002008-06-03T13:10:00.000-05:00I love series - I read them all the time. I like g...I love series - I read them all the time. I like getting to know the world, the people, the history...the more complex, the better!Samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05943062466398436785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-6475306844117625382008-06-03T12:26:00.000-05:002008-06-03T12:26:00.000-05:00I have several mystery series that I read every bo...I have several mystery series that I read every book in, but tend to steer away from science fiction and fantasy series unless there's a beginning, middle, and end. <BR/><BR/>I have trouble remembering the details in series because of the time gap between releases and between when I actually get around to reading them. So I do like and need memory refreshers. But I prefer to have them worked into the plot as needed. <BR/><BR/>In Charlaine Harris's Louisiana vampire series, heroine Sookie summarizes everything that's happened in the past books in the first chapter or two, which disrupts my suspension of belief. I'd rather have "As you know, Bob" explanations.<BR/><BR/>If a book I read has a glossary or list of characters, I refer to it. I find them useful.Shauna Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03871768714926149114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-80326853510160419752008-06-03T10:09:00.000-05:002008-06-03T10:09:00.000-05:00Laughingwolf, I think Lana has a link to her websi...Laughingwolf, I think Lana has a link to her website with her fantasy art on it. I'll have to check.<BR/><BR/>Szelsofa, With Talera, it would be definitely hard to start with 3, but they could probably manage 2. It's a matter of taste on how much you include "in" a book. Some folks have told me that they wish I'd done more of that world building and explaining in the books.<BR/><BR/>Josephine, Long running series definitely seem to have that problem. I have definite ideas for a second trilogy of the Taleran books, but after that I wouldn't do more unless a particularly juicy, stand alone plot, occurred to me. Except in rare cases, I seldom read a series beyond the six books. Some exceptions are the Travis McGee series, the Dray Prescot series, and ERB's Martian series.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-65270704881524387712008-06-03T09:56:00.000-05:002008-06-03T09:56:00.000-05:00Charles: As a reader I tend to avoid series. If it...Charles: As a reader I tend to avoid series. If it's a long running series, I feel I have to start at the beginning, and lots of times the first ones aren't available or are only in paperback (I hate paperback!)<BR/><BR/>Another reason I don't rarely read them is writers tend to get lazy and phone it in as the series continues. They forget plot and focus on the personal problems/family relationships of the secondary characters - basically filler - and probably because they've run out of plot ideas. I can see how they get bored with their character, but their fans and publisher pressure them to churn out more for easy money.<BR/><BR/>As I writer, I see series as a ghetto - and advance plateau to get srtuck in. I think JK Rowling and Stephanie Myers have the right idea - a plotted series with a distinct beginning, middle and end - one long story told over several books as oposed to a series of cookie-cutter plots.Josephine Damianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17952030380866201241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-13896306157881915202008-06-03T07:36:00.000-05:002008-06-03T07:36:00.000-05:00You might include an appendix that includes a voca...You might include an appendix that includes a vocabulary, that explains some of the inhabitants of the planet, some about the way machines work, and so on.<BR/>If you incorporate these into the text, it might bore your returning readers.<BR/>I think people do not buy Part 3 of a series, though. They either buy it 1 to 4 (5-6-7 etc) all the way, or buy none.SzélsőFahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11600289147447182465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-40034444307231462472008-06-03T06:11:00.000-05:002008-06-03T06:11:00.000-05:00that's great, hope to see more of her stuff on her...that's great, hope to see more of her stuff on her blog, toolaughingwolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08873675614347328116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-30243026177601809972008-06-02T20:41:00.000-05:002008-06-02T20:41:00.000-05:00Billy, I'm at an age now where I'm starting to rev...Billy, I'm at an age now where I'm starting to revisit some series that I really liked, although I used to never re-read a book. That's when I was young and foolish.<BR/><BR/>Anndi, yes, like a family reunion of sorts.<BR/><BR/>SQT, well I'm definitely going to blame it on the character. It's even easier in first person cause the character is narrating it. Stupid guy, can't keep the Dhaur's straight. Maybe he was drunk.<BR/><BR/>Jon, I hear you on Dumarest. I enjoyed that series and still have some more of them to read. I also remember trying to make some logical sense out of some of Howard's Conan stories and not always succeeding. As for character development, I think I worked some development into Ruenn over the first trilogy but it may definitely be tough in the follow up book.<BR/><BR/>Candy, sorry to miss our meeting tonight. Not feeling terribly well. I've made notes for myself in case the books are ever reprinted, although at least the errors don't cause any continuity issues with the series. I've had that problem of coming in late in a series and feeling very lost and I don't want my readers to suffer that.<BR/><BR/>Avery, I had some of that problem with the Clan of the Cave Bear series. In fact, I never made it past the first book, although I wanted to. I have definitely glossed over a fair amount of the inner workings of things on Talera and thought I might explain a couple things more fully in this book. I will try not to let it impede the action too much, though.<BR/><BR/>Sarai, I will own up to my mistakes if anyone asks. I think, too, it's probably impossible to keep fully consistent. Heck, real history ain't fully consistent.<BR/><BR/>Britta, I definitely have a lot more of Talera that I want to explore and also another basic story cycle I'd like to tell. After that I think it'll be done.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-7172131313343630312008-06-02T16:11:00.000-05:002008-06-02T16:11:00.000-05:00I think you're on the right track with keeping the...I think you're on the right track with keeping the retreads as tight as possible, and the glossary is a terrific idea.<BR/><BR/>For me, I think a series should be based on the author's interest in exploring that world, and the willingness to create changes and new interest in the characters and the story.Britta Colemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01205625634339087200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-82993846249651074272008-06-02T16:01:00.000-05:002008-06-02T16:01:00.000-05:00It is always interesting to see what authors think...It is always interesting to see what authors think about regarding the series pros and cons. <BR/>As far as the mistakes I seriously doubt anyone has caught it but if they have admit the mistake and correct. Most readers will understand that in a series there are bound to be mistakes. I prefer an author to correct them and then admit it if asked.Saraihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00203551997160640352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-40135865477417646482008-06-02T15:20:00.000-05:002008-06-02T15:20:00.000-05:00I prefer to read and get the gist of the gadgets a...I prefer to read and get the gist of the gadgets and things rather than have a long explanation of their inner workings. Same with past events--just give a quick idea of what happened, and move me along. I'll either catch up, or i won't. If the current story is tight within itself, it won't really matter that much. <BR/><BR/>The worst example of over-explaining past novels was Jean M. Auel's last Earth Children novel, The Shelters of Stone. Almost the entire novel was recapping of the previous three. There was hardly a plot woven in among the backstory. <BR/><BR/>Don't worry about the slip. Fix it and go on. Most people won't catch something that small. And for those who do--just sit back and congratulate yourself on establishing a hardcore fan base.AvDBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16574481780173046619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-48665659024745204892008-06-02T14:46:00.000-05:002008-06-02T14:46:00.000-05:00I'd fix the mistakes and simply include an author'...I'd fix the mistakes and simply include an author's note. If the books go back to print, they might let you correct the errors, so you wouldn't want to perpetuate them. <BR/><BR/>I recently read the nth book in a popular series. The author obviously expected me to know his hero, and I didn't and therefore never warmed up to him. On the other hand, I get annoyed when writers recap what I don't need to know.cs harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13708705800818667923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-90452289207907903232008-06-02T14:42:00.000-05:002008-06-02T14:42:00.000-05:00I like the idea of a map and a glossary.Having sai...I like the idea of a map and a glossary.<BR/><BR/>Having said that, one of my favourite series was E C Tubb's Dumarest saga. He used to repeat whole paragraphs from book to book and it never bothered me, in fact it was part of his charm.<BR/><BR/>I remember trying to map Edgar Rice Burrough's Barsoom and finding the city of Zodanga wandered around the planet from story to story - so if you make a few mistakes you're in good company.<BR/><BR/>One thing that must be difficult in a series featuring one main protagonist is to fit any satisfying character development into each instalment. Maybe series work best with plot based fiction rather than character based; or where the world remains constant but the characters change; or where the secondary characters are vital to the story (eg. in detective series)<BR/><BR/>- JonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-49693229150692709512008-06-02T13:11:00.000-05:002008-06-02T13:11:00.000-05:00I've read a lot of series where there are little m...I've read a lot of series where there are little mistakes here and there but I don't think it's a big deal. There are so many details to keep track of and I think it's easily explainable by saying that a character made the mistake-- that's human nature after all.SQThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04251030404220909306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-41662620793473752982008-06-02T12:50:00.000-05:002008-06-02T12:50:00.000-05:00As a reader I can say that I love series, it feels...As a reader I can say that I love series, it feels like reuniting with old friends.Anndihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08703154815958841195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-10286132494650651702008-06-02T11:13:00.000-05:002008-06-02T11:13:00.000-05:00A good one keeps me engaged and I usually read it ...A good one keeps me engaged and I usually read it more than once. Hell, you've got one going in a sense. Go for it, Charles!WHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14815646433314236886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-72233996502382642432008-06-02T11:09:00.000-05:002008-06-02T11:09:00.000-05:00Mark, that is definitely the preferred way of doin...Mark, that is definitely the preferred way of doing it and what I try to do regularly. But since certain words are sort of "common usage" on Talera it's not always easy to do that after the first once or twice. The glossary might work well to give folks a chance to double check on something they only vaguely recognize.<BR/><BR/>Fancy, making up words can be fun as well.<BR/><BR/>Chris Eldin, that's the issue at hand, for sure. How much recapping, how much forward momentum. And I'm only on book 4. A long series like that would be particularly difficult, although surely people who are reading book 24 have read earlier books and have a pretty good feel for characters and situations.<BR/><BR/>Rohit, I'll check your site out today.<BR/><BR/>Greg Schwartz, I'm convinced on the glossary. Definitely something I'm going to do here.<BR/><BR/>Bernita, thanks. I'll take your advice about the nit.<BR/><BR/>Laughingwolf, she has done an illustration for some poetry I've been working on. And her fantasy art fits with the Taleran concept very well.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-78930696440276105722008-06-02T06:32:00.000-05:002008-06-02T06:32:00.000-05:00i'm sure she'd enjoy working with you, too :)i'm sure she'd enjoy working with you, too :)laughingwolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08873675614347328116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-43130580068648422762008-06-02T06:30:00.000-05:002008-06-02T06:30:00.000-05:00I like the Talera books and I like series.Your err...I like the Talera books and I like series.<BR/>Your error is a nit, a teeny-tiny nit, ignore it.Bernitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05264585685253812090noreply@blogger.com