tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post7292769534417711660..comments2024-02-12T17:59:33.534-06:00Comments on RAZORED ZEN: Fan FictionCharles Gramlichhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-46771463660236639762009-05-06T00:34:00.000-05:002009-05-06T00:34:00.000-05:00Heterosexual women enjoy seeing gay men making out...Heterosexual women enjoy seeing gay men making out? I'm so behind the times! Do they wear tight Speedos to excite the ladies before they get down to the foreplay? Fantastic! I feel as about excited as when I wash the dishes and clear out the cat litter tray.<br /><br />Well I agree with you Charles, I can't see any attraction about writing fan fiction. Except maybe for comedy purposes; I've always wanted to see Superman in those lovely tight red pants in a clinch with Spiderman. How long do you think it would take them to get out of those suits? Could be a passion killer. <br /><br />I suppose they could have velcro suits that just rip off? Nah, that would sound like they're just breaking wind. Maybe buttons? Or a zip? Oh yes, there's comedy in a zip....<br /><br />Hmmm...think I'm gonna write some fan fiction now. Could be my most inspired piece of writing yet...Jane Turleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01441332018679664175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-6113240421297599392009-04-30T10:30:00.000-05:002009-04-30T10:30:00.000-05:00Chris Gruber, I did indeed forget about that one u...Chris Gruber, I did indeed forget about that one until after I'd already put up the post. It definitely was not a regular Costigan setting.<br /><br />writtenwyrdd,cool. I'll check it out.<br /><br />Shauna Roberts, it was certainly new info to me. Or much of it was.<br /><br />jennifer, yes, she explained it pretty well.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-19926008529790350552009-04-26T09:52:00.000-05:002009-04-26T09:52:00.000-05:00I read Angie comment and I appreciate the explanat...I read Angie comment and I appreciate the explanation very much. AND I am a bit fascinated with fan fiction now. This post was a learning experience for me.jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08547226679311827501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-89301842078797673762009-04-24T19:27:00.000-05:002009-04-24T19:27:00.000-05:00Wow, what an informative post.Wow, what an informative post.Shauna Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03871768714926149114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-50621763670222089772009-04-22T11:29:00.000-05:002009-04-22T11:29:00.000-05:00Charles, thought I'd share this with you:
http:/...Charles, thought I'd share this with you: <br />http://echosphere.net/star_trek_insp/star_trek_insp4.htmlwrittenwyrddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02280711822302493122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-47858466220215133922009-04-20T14:57:00.000-05:002009-04-20T14:57:00.000-05:00Hey! you seem to have forgotten your Sailor Steve ...Hey! you seem to have forgotten your Sailor Steve Costigan pastiche. However, you did take him to a place that I am sure Howard had never intended for the poor galoot.Chris Gruberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05581501669681927463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-48912111610355598992009-04-20T14:27:00.000-05:002009-04-20T14:27:00.000-05:00Angie, ah, I see what you mean. Still, there is a...Angie, ah, I see what you mean. Still, there is a fine line perhaps.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-6032924596282385262009-04-20T14:10:00.000-05:002009-04-20T14:10:00.000-05:00Charles -- that's... actually an interesting thoug...Charles -- that's... actually an interesting thought. [ponder] What I meant, though, is that novels based on TV shows or movies or computer games are fanfic. I was still thinking of literary fanfic. There certainly <I>are</I> short movie-ish things created by fans, some with more production value than others, but I wouldn't consider, say, the Batman movies to be fanfic of the comics.<br /><br />In this context, my definition of fanfic is fiction about an existing property, written by someone who has no control of or influence over that property.<br /><br />So a fan writer who writes a Star Trek story and posts it online is writing fanfic, because they have no control over the original Star Trek property. They can write whatever they want, but it's not considered canon by the rights holders and is effectively invisible so far as the larger property is concerned.<br /><br />Someone who writes a licensed Star Trek tie-in novel is also writing fanfic IMO, because although it's considered somewhat official by the rights holder, the author of the novel has no control over canon. He or she is required to follow canon, and is not free to get creative with the characters or setting or even the larger plot. So the writer couldn't, for example, write a novel where the Federation and the Klingons are at war, and the Klingons get a fleet deep into Federation territory and take out Earth, leaving humans only on their colony planets, plus whoever was travelling elsewhere at the time. The tie-in writer is limited not only to the characters and setting as presented in the TV show and movies, but also in that they have to hand everything back in the same condition they found it; by the end of the book, everything has to be back to normal. They're not allowed to make any really lasting changes or developments to any of the regular characters or to any part of the established setting. They have some legitimacy (and some money) but no actual control over what they do. To borrow from the late and unlamented Fanlib, they're forced to color strictly within the lines.<br /><br />I wouldn't consider the official movies to be fanfic, though. They <I>are</I> official, and they're given much more leeway to make changes. So we have the restart of Trek Classic with the movie coming out next month, with significant changes from the original canon which are obvious even in just the trailers. The people making the movie have not only legitimacy, but clearly were given considerable latitude to reinterpret the characters and setting to suit themselves -- to rewrite the canon, to a certain extent. I think that's an important difference.<br /><br />AngieAngiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920578701763415331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-78504430383624716602009-04-20T13:50:00.000-05:002009-04-20T13:50:00.000-05:00Ello, I think that's where I started with this top...Ello, I think that's where I started with this topic. It makes me curious as to why. I've gotten some info that has helped.<br /><br />Lauren, yes, it was all new to me just a couple of days ago.<br /><br />Jennifer, I see Angie answered your question.<br /><br /><br />Angie, it never occurred to me that movies based on video games or comics are really fan fic. But you're so right. Interesting. I do watch those kinds of movies quitea bit.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-7126938686793964872009-04-20T13:10:00.000-05:002009-04-20T13:10:00.000-05:00Jennifer -- more than you ever wanted to know abou...Jennifer -- more than you ever wanted to know about the legal side of fanfic.... ;D<br /><br />If the source material is out of copyright you can do as you like with it, assuming you don't try to claim that you created the characters or setting or whatever. (That's still plagiarism, regardless of the copyright status of the source.) The Oz books are out of copyright, as was <I>Jane Eyre</I> when <I>Wide Sargasso Sea</I> was written.<br /><br />Or if you have permission from the author (or the controlling estate if the author is dead) then you can write in that author's universe; that's how <I>Scarlett</I> was written, with permission from Ms. Mitchell's estate.<br /><br />Another option is to go for a Fair Use case. Parody is protected under fair use, which is why the Harvard Lampoon can publish books like <I>Bored of the Rings</I> and <I>Doon.</I> If the work isn't clearly parody, though, then it gets sticky. You'd have to argue that your unauthorized sequel or whatever is sufficiently transformative to meet the fair use rules, which are kind of vague and which are interpreted case-by-case. No fanfic writer has evern felt like spending the money to go to court over the matter, particularly since fanfic writers tend to be ordinary people without huge bank accounts, and the owners of such original properties as Star Trek, Harry Potter and Rings tend to be pretty darned wealthy, and could keep throwing lawyers at you until you suffocated under the pile, regardless of the merits of the case. :P<br /><br />But yes, it's all essentially fanfic. :) So are all the movie/TV/game tie-in novels; they're written under license from the owner of the source property, but in substance they're fanfic.<br /><br />In practice, fanfic keeps a low profile and most copyright owners who officially disapprove (not all do) look the other way until or unless something happens which forces them to notice. In that case, they send out a handful of Cease and Desist notices, the writers or archivists in question take the stories down, and the rights holder goes away satisfied. The stories often go up again a few weeks or months later, at a new site under a new name; a site which was forced to move for this reason will often be locked or secured or anti-spidered or whatever when it respawns, and it starts over. From the POV of a property owner who thinks fanfic is anathema, it's like stomping roaches; they'll never get rid of all of it, and they make only a token effort to try. [wry smile]<br /><br />Most owners know, though, that fanfic writers are among their biggest fans. People who write fanfic based on a movie or TV show evangelize the movie or show to all their friends, rave about it online, and the fanfic itself often brings in new viewers. (I never saw <I>Blackhawk Down</I> until I read some excellent fanfic based on it. I was never a <I>Stargate: Atlantis</I> fan until I got into the fanfic; now I'm buying the DVD seasons so I can watch it, since it's been cancelled.)<br /><br />Fanfic writers buy the DVDs, with all the special editions and extras, and buy the books and the encyclopedias and concordances and any other official tie-ins, so they can study them as research for their writing. Pissing off the fanfic crowd is like hacking a hole in your own wallet, and most owners realize this.<br /><br />Because of the money situation, though, there's never been a court case about fanfic and no one knows where the line is drawn, legally. Many fanfic stories are clear parody and therefore legally protected. Many are just "further adventures," fun but pedestrian and just more of the same thing offered in the original property, and probably not protected. There's a huge grey area, though, and despite what any number of people (particularly a few really uptight authors [cough]) loudy claim whenever the subject comes up, 1) without a court case, no one knows for sure how it would come out, and 2) even a court case would only serve as precedent for the given type of story put on trial, not all of fanfic. And even then, each case is up to its individual judge, who can usually find a reason to either use or discard a precedent if he or she has a reason to want to.<br /><br />Bottom line, it's complicated if your source is still in copyright. :) But with properties which have passed out of copyright, give credit and you're golden.<br /><br />AngieAngiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920578701763415331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-70869865824238314662009-04-20T12:29:00.000-05:002009-04-20T12:29:00.000-05:00CRAZY that you addressed this and I had a question...CRAZY that you addressed this and I had a question along the same lines yesterday.<br /><br />Gregory Maguire wrote Wicked based on some characters in L. Frank Baum's Oz series. It struck me as odd that one author can use another author's characters to write a novel. Is there any rules or guide lines for doing this?<br /><br />slash... that was a new one to me.jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08547226679311827501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-57621595052071080132009-04-20T10:34:00.000-05:002009-04-20T10:34:00.000-05:00I have met many Trekkies, but had never known abou...I have met many Trekkies, but had never known about the whole Spock/Krik thing....wow...<br /><br />Interesting....<br /><br />I know that fan fiction is out there, but I've never really read it with the exception of reading some stuff that friends have written.Laurenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11795668965659926769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-10813668419096477752009-04-20T10:10:00.000-05:002009-04-20T10:10:00.000-05:00I've never read fan fic before. I am always intere...I've never read fan fic before. I am always interested in what causes people to write fan fic - I guess a desire not to see the characters or the world end?Ello - Ellen Ohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18311917335471167591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-41522875937018867172009-04-20T08:54:00.000-05:002009-04-20T08:54:00.000-05:00Candy, consider my predicament with said image!
J...Candy, consider my predicament with said image!<br /><br />JR, just hearing the word "slash" makes me think of slasher flicks. OMG, I've just created another image I didn't want.<br /><br />Erik Donald France, hum, well I probably imagined a few stories about yeoman Rand, although I wouldn't have written them down for fear my mom would find them.<br /><br />Leigh Russell, Imagining is half the fun, when it's the right kind of imagining. Glad your Amazon rank went up some. Be careful though, watching those Amazon numbers can be addicting and probably isn't all that healthy. I speak from experience.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-56852952369581519252009-04-20T03:18:00.000-05:002009-04-20T03:18:00.000-05:00There is something fantastically hilarious about a...There is something <I>fan</I>tastically hilarious about all this - a whole new world... keep guessing, guys! and no, I'm not going to imagine <I>any</I> of this - I'm not - I'm not!<br /><br />As for my own particular obsession - The individual vs the faceless corporation (Leigh Russell vs amazon.co.uk) - Sales ranking for Cut Short on amazon.com rose to 780,000, thanks to my friends in the blogworld. So <I>thank you</I> USA.<br /><br />If everyone persuaded a friend to order a copy, or ordered a second copy as a virtually signed gift for a friend, perhaps we might maintain a good rating… and - (am I hoping for a miracle here?) amazon.co.uk might take notice. <br /><br />I leave it with you, my friends around the world.Leigh Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15080517449825380527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-56633572761029071742009-04-20T00:40:00.000-05:002009-04-20T00:40:00.000-05:00Add all the poetry inspired by Twin Peaks. Fun stu...Add all the poetry inspired by <I>Twin Peaks</I>. Fun stuff, eh? Back in high school, I wrote a story based on Yeoman Rand, and "no beach to walk on." For what it's worth . . .Erik Donald Francehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02332500850365598564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-50797288800164029642009-04-19T22:28:00.000-05:002009-04-19T22:28:00.000-05:00Slash fiction huh? Thank-God Dirty Harry had a fe...Slash fiction huh? Thank-God Dirty Harry had a female partner. I don't think I've ever read any slash, not that kind of slash anyway, gore yes, slash no.JR's Thumbprintshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10479324326541901987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-57574552617331865772009-04-19T22:13:00.000-05:002009-04-19T22:13:00.000-05:00Thanks for the education, Charles; I'd no idea abo...Thanks for the education, Charles; I'd no idea about almost all of this. Although I think I could have done without the mental image of Spock and Kirk! Obviously I'm not one of those women who finds m/m arousing.cs harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13708705800818667923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-86443664062891619662009-04-19T22:11:00.000-05:002009-04-19T22:11:00.000-05:00Clare2e, hummn, awakening womanhood. Interesting....Clare2e, hummn, awakening womanhood. Interesting. I hadn't thought of that potential angle, although I know lots of older women read and write this kind of material. I'm the same way about writing in another author's world. It be like staying at someone else's house. I don't think I'd ever feel completely comfortable.<br /><br />Donnetta Lee, I myself prefer to think of Spock and Kirk as just good friends.<br /><br />Steve Malley, thanks. Glad you liked it.<br /><br />jodi, fortunately we have a house. :)Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-70237001010083158172009-04-19T20:16:00.000-05:002009-04-19T20:16:00.000-05:00Charles, I can't even think of one fan fiction pie...Charles, I can't even think of one fan fiction piece that I have read. Lana and you need to get a room!jodihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01798858210138821711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-22512056366102145322009-04-19T17:26:00.000-05:002009-04-19T17:26:00.000-05:00Well, here's me late to the comments board. Nothin...Well, here's me late to the comments board. Nothing much to add, but I did enjoy the post!Steve Malleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17561234111786788616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-57936718104105971652009-04-19T16:29:00.000-05:002009-04-19T16:29:00.000-05:00Well, you are educating me. Hmm. Hadn't even thoug...Well, you are educating me. Hmm. Hadn't even thought about this before. (Yes, I'm slow.) But, really, that last image is pretty--well--illogical. DDonnettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14831771508607746472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-2332350665408632692009-04-19T15:45:00.000-05:002009-04-19T15:45:00.000-05:00Because I knew a girl in junior high who did, I wr...Because I knew a girl in junior high who did, I wrote a little Battlestar Galactica fanfic, old school. I'm afraid since then, I've become too controlling not to have the power to make any canonical changes I thought the story needed, and while I get the fannish enthusiasm and feel it myself for some creations, I'd feel a little strange about arbitrarily reinterpreting another author's world. <br /><br />The newer versions of fanfic and all their permutations of tropes and players are pretty overwhelming to me in scope, though I'm glad the hordes who love writing and reading them can find each other and contribute to the community through the intarwebs.<br /><br />I've wondered about the m/m fic, too, knowing as I do that it's largely by women and for women. There are Japanese schoolboy romances in manga form. It's a mirror world with frustrated pining and gifts of roses and stuffed animals, a commanding older boy (top) and a wide-eyed younger one (bottom), and they're designed for young girls to enjoy. I'd read some reviews of the Twilight series dissecting its appeal as an introduction for girls to the scary concept of a sexually awakened womanhood, and these m/m comics do somewhat the same, but I'm not sure exactly why it's less threatening than m/f.Clare2ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06105229820107294986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-26710266800419770252009-04-19T10:48:00.000-05:002009-04-19T10:48:00.000-05:00benjibopper, hum, I never really thought of the "U...benjibopper, hum, I never really thought of the "Uglying up the imagination" part of it. You could have a point there.<br /><br />Mark, Star Trek's the only TV show I know enough about. but there are a few other "fan" activities I take part in.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-91643406042033505122009-04-19T04:18:00.000-05:002009-04-19T04:18:00.000-05:00I don't know enough about anything to be a fanI don't know enough about anything to be a fanthe walking manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10058913927297370740noreply@blogger.com