tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post5695828708092165802..comments2024-02-12T17:59:33.534-06:00Comments on RAZORED ZEN: Stereotyped CharactersCharles Gramlichhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-30532768903843869582010-11-16T13:12:42.948-06:002010-11-16T13:12:42.948-06:00Candy, I've heard you tell us about that at th...Candy, I've heard you tell us about that at the wordies meetings. It's part of the search for the next great villain thing, I guess. At least in part.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-26978106152633999622010-11-16T10:20:48.308-06:002010-11-16T10:20:48.308-06:00The stereotypes that get me are the Islamic terror...The stereotypes that get me are the Islamic terrorists. I've known a few Islamic terrorists in my life, and Hollywood NEVER gets them right! I suspect you're more sensitive to this one, therefore you see it more.cs harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13708705800818667923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-65513740661995410572010-11-15T08:23:54.550-06:002010-11-15T08:23:54.550-06:00David, at the very least the white racist southern...David, at the very least the white racist southern gunlover needs to be racist against Martians or something. <br /><br />Ali, Yeah, "Merle Dixon" is about as stereotyped a name as you can get. And consider the contrast with "Lincoln" for the sheriff. I do like Michael Rooker a lot and hope they give him a bit more to work with in the next few episodes. I'm assuming after last night's episode that he'll be "backkkk."Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-21876700052312880272010-11-14T21:17:06.401-06:002010-11-14T21:17:06.401-06:00Nope you're not the only one who was annoyed w...Nope you're not the only one who was annoyed with such a cheap characterization. I'm a Black male from the North and I was extremely frustrated with the character of Merle Dixon [not very original name either]. <br />Michael Rooker's a terrifically talented actor and to see him used in that manner really bothered me; to serve as a one-dimensional contrast to the Andrew Lincoln's hero Sheriff. <br />I don't believe that anyone could be so full of hatred that they would risk their own survival.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01808566097140729626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-68970871579411398532010-11-13T10:43:15.568-06:002010-11-13T10:43:15.568-06:00The white male southern racist has been done to de...The white male southern racist has been done to death. You're right also about AVATAR. I couldn't stand that piece of shit.David Cranmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04749857752139212888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-55777418131852658572010-11-13T10:42:46.318-06:002010-11-13T10:42:46.318-06:00jennifer, yes, the predictability is particularly ...jennifer, yes, the predictability is particularly annoying because it always keeps happening in the same way.<br /><br />Mary Witzl, there's another stereotype for sure, the idea that all religious believers are fanatics and ignorent. It bothers me because so many of my family members are Christians.<br /><br />X. Dell, I have to believe that a lot of it is ignorence on the part of the folks making the movies and shows, with a big helping of laziness. I'm actually under six feet tall. I can on occassion "loom" as if I'm bigger. I haven't posted much about my guns except for my Uberti western style pistol. maybe I'll do that. I also teach at an HBCU, a historically Black university. <br /><br />JR, I noticed your 'excused' but I always fight down my "psychological" urge to analyse Freudian slips. :)Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-72938956057122579602010-11-13T07:44:19.527-06:002010-11-13T07:44:19.527-06:00Oh my, must be a subconcious wish on my part, to b...Oh my, must be a subconcious wish on my part, to be "excused" of racism--that'll never happen! I'll have to reflect on stereotypes and racism and perhaps post something. I really enjoyed this post.JR's Thumbprintshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10479324326541901987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-15285142080853656522010-11-12T13:40:27.820-06:002010-11-12T13:40:27.820-06:00To be honest, no I haven't seen an increase in...To be honest, no I haven't seen an increase in the racist southern "c"-word, for I'm not particularly sensitive to it. I am sensitive to other stereotypes that I see in media.<br /><br />You might want to check out Michael Parenti's essay "The Make Believe Media" in which he discusses examples of how the stereotpyification evident in many media products simply stem from the ignorance and prejudices of the professional class of people making movies and television shows. <br /><br />BTW, I thought you were a rather large, muscular sort, but maybe that's an illusion caused by the beard, the bike and the coat:-) As for the guns, I don't recall you mentioning them. And seeing that you have a novel with an African-American protagonist, I wouldn't really peg you as a Klansman.X. Dellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17561609651507566271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-22043026449235144112010-11-12T08:46:47.531-06:002010-11-12T08:46:47.531-06:00That stereotype drives me crazy too. Almost all of...That stereotype drives me crazy too. Almost all of my relatives are from the South and I've spent some time there myself. While there are definitely some good old boy types among them who like their beer and guns and trucks, some of those very guys are, like you, enlightened. And there are also plenty of Northerners -- and Californians -- who are racist, which a lot of people conveniently forget. <br /><br />In town yesterday, I heard someone blast all American Christians as pig-headed and obnoxious. I couldn't get over that! I've had my agnostic moments, but that really pissed me off.Mary Witzlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06458299046574564155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-11331381944097823362010-11-11T15:23:32.877-06:002010-11-11T15:23:32.877-06:00It makes the story predictable too. My guess is t...It makes the story predictable too. My guess is the racist will meet an untimely end, causing the audience guilty pleasure at his demise. He's the one folks are glad to see go because he has been set up as s social villain. I can't tell you how many times we've watched a movie and said, "Oh yeah, that guy is going to get it."jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08547226679311827501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-76912046410790504812010-11-10T07:52:52.697-06:002010-11-10T07:52:52.697-06:00JR., I've been accussed of racism a couple of ...JR., I've been accussed of racism a couple of times myself at my work. It really upset me at first but I realized it was part of certain people's agenda to attack me or to get something they wanted from me.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-59381133748871203472010-11-09T22:45:39.798-06:002010-11-09T22:45:39.798-06:00I have plenty of students that live their lives as...I have plenty of students that live their lives as if they're in a rap video, and they dare anyone (mainly authority figures) to question their behavior. I'm probably too "desensitized" regarding racism and stereotypes because of where I work. If someone gave me a dollar for everytime I was excused of racism, I'd probably have my house paid off.<br /><br /><br />On a different note, I'm disappointed that I missed the second episode of "The Walking Dead."JR's Thumbprintshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10479324326541901987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-7248944269731790022010-11-09T20:26:44.022-06:002010-11-09T20:26:44.022-06:00Randy Johnson, I remember being really irritated w...Randy Johnson, I remember being really irritated with Hollywood over this back in the 70s and early 80s, and then it seemed to get a bit better. They still fall back too often on the stereotyped southerner though.<br /><br /> Middle Ditch, that’s true as I remember it. Twin Peaks was surreal in every way just about. I enjoyed it, though it’s been years since I’ve seen it.<br /><br /> Lana Gramlich, that’s true. One word for that: “A Team Remake” Well, maybe that’s three words.<br /><br /><br /> Angie, I’m not really in disagreement with you. And yes, you have to look at the long-term pattern. I never watched much of the StarGate stuff, mainly because I just never had time. But consistent patterns of stereotyping definitely suggest a problem to me. I actually wince at a lot of comedy that makes use of stereotypes. I don’t quite get it, but I know a lot of folks get a kick out of it, and at times I can find it funny too. One thing about comedy that mitigates it is that comics often make fun of “every” kind of group and that seems to help. I still find the “Jewish” jokes on Southpark to be upsetting at times, but I don’t think most people seem to.<br /><br /> SzélsőFa, yeah, I’m a walking stereotype in more than one ways. You know, that kind of bothers me too. It’s so predictable, and so common.<br /><br /><br /> Sarah, I did enjoy the effects, although one friend described it as like a 70s blacklight poster and I could see it. Thanks for dropping by and commenting.<br /><br /> G, Double standards seem to be the rule rather than the exception, and it occurs in all kinds of ways. For a lighthearted one, Jeff Foxworthy can get away with the “you might be a redneck” because of his background, but it wouldn’t be so funny coming from a New York Jewish Lawyer maybe. <br /><br /> <br /> Carole, yes, shades of gray is the rule. I don’t mind boldly drawn black & white characters at times, in certain kinds of fiction, but in fiction that strives for realism it just doesn’t usually work. It’s like finding out that Hitler loved his dog. My mind has a hard time wrapping around that.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-31225510107615575722010-11-09T16:47:37.875-06:002010-11-09T16:47:37.875-06:00Well, I was going to make a well thought out comme...Well, I was going to make a well thought out comment but then it appears that almost all comments are taken. <br /><br />The truth is harder to write or tell than the sterotype. <br /><br />A child-abuser who gives to the poor and saves trees and loves the ocean is easier to forgive than a child-abuser who kicks cats and litters and never cleans house. We can't forgive a child-abuser, therefore we make them into a stereotype or one dimensional.<br /><br />That is why I most often hate stereotypes. Because people or so much more than just one thing. Good, bad, indifferent, slovenly, clean, caring, etc...but rarely just good guys and bad guys.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03828426520214270655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-287864552399415932010-11-09T16:19:45.742-06:002010-11-09T16:19:45.742-06:00Charles: in regards to the flamboyant gay characte...Charles: in regards to the flamboyant gay characters being played by gays.<br /><br />I think that there's a double standard being applied, in that so long as a gay person is doing a parody of himself/herself, then they get a pass, whereas if someone, say like Vince Vaughn, makes a "that's so gay" joke, they go off the deep end about it.G. B. Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09783331838434598963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-76922723031732305032010-11-09T14:56:49.648-06:002010-11-09T14:56:49.648-06:00My boyfriend has serious issues with Avitar too.. ...My boyfriend has serious issues with Avitar too.. meh. I Liked the effects. <br /><br />I just need visual stimulation.. <br /><br />stereotypes kinda piss me off..Roxihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09758786350536266571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-19691339836838927252010-11-09T14:21:42.767-06:002010-11-09T14:21:42.767-06:00your advice on stereotypes comes handy for me thes...your advice on stereotypes comes handy for me these days.<br />also i enjoyed your making different categories for stereotypes.<br />and i laughed at this part: <i> I will admit that I’m probably sensitized to this one in particular because I’m a white southern male who owns guns.</i><br />bwah-hah.<br /><br />my most hated stereotype in films is when in a team there has to be an Asian, a black and/or Hispanic. cause the filmmakers want to avoid being racists.SzélsőFahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11600289147447182465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-60957332395087503812010-11-09T14:18:26.066-06:002010-11-09T14:18:26.066-06:00The first few people who use such a character are ...<i>The first few people who use such a character are not creating stereotypes, but the ones who follow on the wave of that success may be taking the easy road.</i><br /><br />I agree with you there -- it only becomes a problem later on. [nod] And with something like the kick-ass heroine, I don't know that I'd even consider it to be a stereotype; isn't that more of a cliche? It's not so much playing into harmful assumptions as it is taking what can be a perfectly legitimate character build and duct-taping it into far too many books in the genre. I haven't seen anyone going around the real world with the working assumption that every woman -- or even every woman wearing boots or leather pants or a tank top [cough] -- must of course be capable of kicking butt on three or four muggers at a time. There are plenty of people who'll cross the street in real life to avoid having to pass too close to a black man after dark, though.<br /><br /><i>If you NEVER have a white male, southern racist, then that is a problem. If you won’t ever allow a black character to be a crack dealing gangbanger, or a woman to be a weak willed victim, then that is a problem.</i><br /><br />Sure, but for one thing, you can pull out different bits of the package and only use the ones you need, like I did above with the southern male racist who's not misogynist, not a gun nut, and has a Master's degree. And for another thing, the most offensive thing about stereotypes is when they're the go-to character build for that type and the writer never transcends that. If your protag has a friendly black neighbor who's a software engineer and a great father to his kids, and the insurance adjustor who made sure he got a check for his totalled car reasonably promptly was black, and his teenager's favorite teacher is black, then no one's going to complain that the crack dealer in a black neighborhood is also black. It's when that crack dealer is the only black character in the book that the writer has a problem, and deserves to be called out on it, especially if similar issues crop up in all their books.<br /><br />Going back to TV, Stargate fans were looking at the casting calls for the latest show, Stargate: Universe. There was one and only one character where they were specifically looking for a black male -- a military guy who had anger issues. Because anger and violence totally aren't stereotyped characteristics of black men. [sigh] Or you can back up to Stargate: Atlantis where they had a great black character and ruined him. Lt. Ford was military, yes, but he was young and eager and friendly, a bit of a joker, everyone liked him. So of course they had to get rid of him early in the show's run -- drug problem. [facepalm] Because the black guy's tendency toward succumbing to drugs isn't a stereotype either, right?<br /><br />And there were no other black (human) characters. If you look at the whole show across the three series, there's a black man playing an alien in the first series, the black guy from Earth who develops a drug problem in the second, and also a black woman playing another alien, and the third series has its black (human) military guy with anger issues. Three series, almost twenty years of TV, and they couldn't come up with a major, black character from Earth who didn't fall into the cliche pit. The creators get a lot of criticism for that, and IMO they deserve every bit of it.<br /><br /><i>For one, stereotypes are often played off of in comedy. And people seem to accept them and laugh at them in that context.</i><br /><br />Sure they do. [nod] But do we want them to? Is it okay for every stand-up comic to have a bit in their act where they start out, "So I met this dude from the South..." which goes on to make jokes about what an ignorant, racist gun-nut he is? Who married his cousin? It'll get laughs (except from the southern men in the audience) but like Art said in the first comment, it's a cheap shot. It's also incredibly uncreative. :/<br /><br />AngieAngiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920578701763415331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-4090404701873664642010-11-09T14:10:35.411-06:002010-11-09T14:10:35.411-06:00I'm not surprised at the overuse of stereotype...I'm not surprised at the overuse of stereotypes, particularly in modern Hollywood's "we have no original ideas"/DUH period.Lana Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06975996208260144558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-40815189553252235442010-11-09T13:32:46.103-06:002010-11-09T13:32:46.103-06:00Don't know the series but let me tell you that...Don't know the series but let me tell you that Twin Peaks is repeated here. <br /><br />Oh BOY! What some joy! The soundtrack, the wonderful scene setting (nowadays not allowed), the slow credits. You can actually follow who plays what etc. My evenings are made AND no stereo types there! <br /><br />Off to the next episode XMiddle Ditchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16493665280732775898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-89791158492918916972010-11-09T12:19:35.818-06:002010-11-09T12:19:35.818-06:00As a southern male, I've always been impatient...As a southern male, I've always been impatient with views of Southerners in movies and TV. They never get the accent right. Of course I don't notice a southern accent as we all sound pretty much the same. That's why in movies and TV they are so jarring. Is that what they think we sound like?<br /><br />As for The Walking Dead, I have them DVRed, but haven't gotten to them yet. I've been engaged in watching eight Saint movies from the thirties and forties I've had in my queue for too long.Randy Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16627907086811387527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-77608120772445165752010-11-09T10:09:08.379-06:002010-11-09T10:09:08.379-06:00Cloudia, true, when you’re only influences are the...Cloudia, true, when you’re only influences are the movies from the last few years it’s hard to come up with something new and original.<br /><br />David J. West, If you look at the elements that make up the stereotype, they exist across a spectrum, so it’s easy to extract a few of those elements and mash them together in characters. I guess this is what happens in many cases. So glad you enjoyed Swords. <br /> <br /> Angie, Very very thoughtful commentary, and I agree with you on a number of things, that “apparently” positive stereotypes are also often harmful. And we can use elements such as making a person a racist for certain purposes, but then you’re right that we should select other characteristics that flesh out the character rather than fall back on the standard set of stereotyped characteristics. I think this is particularly important for main characters.<br /><br />One problem, though, is that stereotypes can actually develop fairly quickly, as with the sudden emergence in urban fantasy of the kick-ass heroine as a stereotype. The first few people who use such a character are not creating stereotypes, but the ones who follow on the wave of that success may be taking the easy road. <br /><br />Another problem that complicates the issue is that the very act of trying to completely eliminate stereotypes can actually produce a kind of stereotype. If you NEVER have a white male, southern racist, then that is a problem. If you won’t <i>ever</i> allow a black character to be a crack dealing gangbanger, or a woman to be a weak willed victim, then that is a problem. It narrows and impoverishes the writer’s choices. Yet, if a specific writer uses such a character they’ll be accused of stereotyping.<br /><br />I’m not sure that I’d agree that stereotypes are ‘never’ useful. For one, stereotypes are often played off of in comedy. And people seem to accept them and laugh at them in that context. Too, I can imagine a story in which the creation of a stereotype is actually a kind of literary statement. It could be done on purpose with a certain end in mind. Not that I think “The Walking Dead” folks and the “Avatar” folks were doing this. Thanks for your great response.<br /> <br /> G, I think you’re onto something there with “Slugger’s Holiday.” I definitely did intend to pay homage to Howard’s work in that piece, and there are stereotypes within it, especially of Sailor Steve Costigan himself. However, I tried to make sure not to use the typical “Oriental” villain, and I tried to mix up my “insults” toward groups of people by mixing up references to Britishers, gorillas, Eyetalians, and musslemen. Actually, I do know of someone who was offended by “Slugger’s Holiday,” though. Writing is such a minefield. “I’ve got a lot of stereotyped “Mullet” wearing characteristics myself.<br /> <br /> SQT, indeed.<br /><br /> Scott, yeah, I like the actor, Rooker, a lot. He seems to be typecast as a villain mostly, though, eh? I think he has the chops to be bigger than he is. That theme of “getting along” certainly did seem a bit heavy handed in that episode especially.<br /> <br /> jodi, I get tired of the “mullet” references myself too.<br /> <br /> laughingwolf, I know. Everytime I start to watch a show I usually end up getting pretty disgusted with it pretty quickly.<br /> <br /> Jodi MacArthur, yeah, that’s a good point that the aftermath of such a plague might indeed bring out the worst in us, but it doesn’t so much in this crowd.<br /> <br /> ivan, that’s hilarious man. That should become a novella at the least. Not a problem. I may erase a couple of those. <br /><br /> the walking man, I was thinking about the flamboyant gay thing. I’ve wondered why more gay folks haven’t seemed to be upset about it, but in most cases these days such characters seemed to be played by gay actors. I wonder if that makes any difference?<br /> <br /> Gaston Studio, it’s getting to where you find ‘em under every TV/movie rock you kick over.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-27365163070974343702010-11-09T09:04:49.433-06:002010-11-09T09:04:49.433-06:00Yep, IMHO you're absolutely right in that it&#...Yep, IMHO you're absolutely right in that it's almost always the white southern racist male who is always the bad guy, especially if he's in the military to boot.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16813508472498593787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-33646462664397644772010-11-09T03:51:32.930-06:002010-11-09T03:51:32.930-06:00Flamboyant gay men are common stereotype for them ...Flamboyant gay men are common stereotype for them who are anti-gay in thought and propaganda. The nut job who ran for Governor of NY and his comments were fairly typical stereotyping. who himself was a walking stereotype of a NY mob thug.the walking manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10058913927297370740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-1521023421957929142010-11-09T00:52:50.998-06:002010-11-09T00:52:50.998-06:00Sorry Charles.
Got impatient for comment to show ...Sorry Charles.<br /><br />Got impatient for comment to show up. Overkill, I guess.<br /><br />...Or my punishment for stealing. :)ivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05662075375182633162noreply@blogger.com