tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post4504205781822678892..comments2024-02-12T17:59:33.534-06:00Comments on RAZORED ZEN: Exotic Writing, Part 2Charles Gramlichhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-36937036280744000002007-09-27T19:58:00.000-05:002007-09-27T19:58:00.000-05:00I love your comments on this stuff. I once read s...I love your comments on this stuff. I once read somewhere that readers want to know what is strange about what seems normal and what is normal about what seems strange. Seems like good writing advice to me -- and maybe helpful in thinking about exotic versus familiar.Michelle's Spellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15769666862403600253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-57942904478015221952007-09-26T09:53:00.000-05:002007-09-26T09:53:00.000-05:00Good post. I think you're right, so much is taken ...Good post. I think you're right, so much is taken over the top these days--the violence in slasher movies being only one example.<BR/><BR/>A long time ago, a writer friend recommended Steven King as someone who does a wonderful job portraying a safe, normal world into which creeps horror. It may be a big part of his huge success.cs harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13708705800818667923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-88105640004467363802007-09-26T09:51:00.000-05:002007-09-26T09:51:00.000-05:00Szelsofa, thanks for dropping by. I think there's...Szelsofa, thanks for dropping by. I think there's a tie between exotic and surreal at some level, although I need to think more about it.<BR/><BR/>Bernita, I thnk the exotic has something sensual about it too. Obviously I need a lot more thought on the subject.<BR/><BR/>etain, yes, I shouldn't have ventured there myself.<BR/><BR/>Lisa, yes, foreign or alien is an element of the exotic. You are forgiven for siding with Steve and Erik on Kafka. You're all three young after all. ;)Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-1927142375625434822007-09-26T00:41:00.000-05:002007-09-26T00:41:00.000-05:00It's interesting that exotic is usually something ...It's interesting that exotic is usually something I think of as being of "foreign" origin, foreign being relative. With mass communications it's getting harder to find something truly exotic in reality, although I still find anything different from Western culture to be in that category for me specifically.<BR/><BR/>I have to go with Steve and Eric on the Kafka -- but I think you and I have disagreed on this particular story before :)Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00665632105920753931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-51712520865572157272007-09-25T14:09:00.000-05:002007-09-25T14:09:00.000-05:00hahahah...humping ankle in a bathroom, that can be...hahahah...humping ankle in a bathroom, that can be a comedy. I do not even venture there....in my poetry I try and depict some stuff, maybe one day.<BR/>Great points Charles:)Drizelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16746480963316566816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-82807978365211116532007-09-25T13:10:00.000-05:002007-09-25T13:10:00.000-05:00Not sure I would define exotic as merely the unfam...Not sure I would define exotic as merely the unfamiliar. I think it may also have to be largely unknown or semi-secret.<BR/>But I generally agree.<BR/>The beauty of magic realism is that, despite some assumptions, there is not one magic code of laws or rites of observance - so a thin colour of logic is sometimes all that is necessary - as long as there are no obvious internal contradiction in the "science."<BR/>Really like Angie's quote.Bernitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05264585685253812090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-4223078915204428372007-09-25T11:24:00.000-05:002007-09-25T11:24:00.000-05:00To me, exotic is when something not-so-much-expect...To me, exotic is when something not-so-much-expected happens, like out of nowhere, like a man, turning into a giant nasty insect. The ultimate of horrors.<BR/>That said, I'm not really a fan of Kafka :)<BR/><BR/>I like all the other reasons.<BR/>I vote to have part 3.SzélsőFahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11600289147447182465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-50262770931176403502007-09-25T09:11:00.000-05:002007-09-25T09:11:00.000-05:00Steve, all I can is, "ankles are underrated."Angie...Steve, all I can is, "ankles are underrated."<BR/><BR/>Angie, I like that editor's comment. And you're right, what is exotic for one group of readers is mundane for another. The audience has to be considered.<BR/><BR/>Travis, I started out having a hard time writing anything else, although now I do some realistic fiction as well.<BR/><BR/>Ello, by exotic I mean something that is unfamiliar and generally attractive or exciting to us for that reason. It doesn't have to be unrealistic. In fact, it should probably 'seem' realistic even if it isn't actually.<BR/><BR/>december/stacia, yes, I think readers have to start out grounded in a kind of familiarity. At least most readers most of the time.<BR/><BR/>Erik, I think you and Steve are cutting Kafka too much slack, although you are certainly in good company doing so. I have friends who consider it a masterpiece. I'm missing that, I'm afraid.<BR/><BR/>Alex, yes, you're right. Kind of like with the Burkha. I know a lot of Americans who are fascinated by such things as the Japanese tea ceremony. I believe the exotic nature of it is a major part, exotic to us that is.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-90234753059873295322007-09-25T08:17:00.000-05:002007-09-25T08:17:00.000-05:00I think "exotic" is relative. For Americans, takin...I think "exotic" is relative. <BR/><BR/>For Americans, taking part in a Japanese tea ceremony could be seen as exotic but it's run of the mill for the Japanese. <BR/><BR/>Likewise, you mentioned you grew up on a farm. For something like 96% of Americans, this is unusual.<BR/> <BR/>But clearly if you can bring something across well that people are not familiar with, whether it is a Japanese tea ceremony or the Planet Beta-Test-Drive, then it will be intriguing to readers. Plot and characters are just two facets of a good story.alex ketohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08003786334665677107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-77465112244974749872007-09-25T07:45:00.000-05:002007-09-25T07:45:00.000-05:00All good points. I'm with Steve on the Kafka, thou...All good points. I'm with Steve on the Kafka, though. I guess it could be akin to waking up and realizing one has a debilitating disease -- something I hope never to experience.Erik Donald Francehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02332500850365598564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-23302551962924489462007-09-25T03:26:00.000-05:002007-09-25T03:26:00.000-05:00This is excellent! I especially like your analogy ...This is excellent! I especially like your analogy about a child seeing its mother before it can explore.Staciahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969399927758009095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-86441396133881302822007-09-24T20:09:00.000-05:002007-09-24T20:09:00.000-05:00For me exotic comes from stories set in different ...For me exotic comes from stories set in different countries or different times. It is why I love historical fiction. It is a time unknown to the reader but which becomes familiar during the course of the reading. When you are using the term exotic, are you meaning strange or unrealistic action which jars the reader from his/her complacency?Ello - Ellen Ohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18311917335471167591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-16152090130927856222007-09-24T19:21:00.000-05:002007-09-24T19:21:00.000-05:00This was an interesting read for me since I've nev...This was an interesting read for me since I've never tackled this type of writing.Travis Erwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09420879160702098979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-35523073284621070252007-09-24T19:05:00.000-05:002007-09-24T19:05:00.000-05:00Charles -- I generally agree with number two but I...Charles -- I generally agree with number two but I think there are various values of "realistic." :) In SF, for example, you can make quite a lot about your setting exotic if you also make it clear just how we got from here to there. That is, if it's clear that what's different is different for logical reasons and that everything fits together somehow, even if some of the exact hows and whys aren't revealed till later as part of the story.<BR/><BR/>With one and four, I think a lot of it has to do with your audience. Like in your last post, you mentioned that you were a country kid and I said I grew up in cities. So a story set on a farm or in a downtown area, deeply immersed in its setting, would strike us differently because of our experiences. Or would've twenty years ago, at least.<BR/><BR/>But it's like, an SF story published in <I>Analog</I> needs a lot less explanation, and can assume a lot more knowledge of science and tech on the part of the readers, than say an SF story published in <I>Playboy.</I> Although the <I>Playboy</I> story will pay a lot better. :)<BR/><BR/>The different audiences will have different experiences and expectations, though, and what would be perfect for the <I>Analog</I> audience, with a lot of familiar features and just enough of the exotic to be interesting, would have your average <I>Playboy</I> reader lost and confused, drowning in too much unexplained exoticness.<BR/><BR/>About five, I'm with you on Kafka. I know it's a classic and all, but I just have a hard time buying that sort of thing. A fantasy editor once said, "You want your readers to suspend their disbelief, not hang it by the neck until it's dead." :D<BR/><BR/>AngieAngiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920578701763415331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-12172197086850226392007-09-24T18:23:00.000-05:002007-09-24T18:23:00.000-05:00Since Kafka was writing allegory rather than fanta...Since Kafka was writing allegory rather than fantasy (which really hadn't emerged as a genre in his time), I'd cut him a little slack. But otherwise I think your arguments are well-reasoned.<BR/><BR/>Michael D.C. Drout says that science fiction requires a logical explanation for everything , where in fantasy, you can just say, "I have a magic ring." Maybe that's explanation enough, but the Harry Dresden books seem more believable because the author explains magic as a channeling of natural forces.<BR/><BR/>I like your idea of contrasting the realistic with the exotic, and your rule that the exotic can quickly become the familiar.<BR/><BR/>As for having sex with someone else's ankle in a bathroom--does the bathroom or the ankle make it kinky? Or was that what Larry Craig was trying to do?steve on the slow trainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18257811143869341854noreply@blogger.com