tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post2326661596584988497..comments2024-02-12T17:59:33.534-06:00Comments on RAZORED ZEN: Fat Quiz: Not What You ThinkCharles Gramlichhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-89216403580081865682015-03-24T07:46:43.082-05:002015-03-24T07:46:43.082-05:00Charles-I tend to write the same way as I speak-an...Charles-I tend to write the same way as I speak-animated and wordy. Maybe it's just my style?jodihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01798858210138821711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-56170795526201573022015-03-18T22:18:36.150-05:002015-03-18T22:18:36.150-05:00A good exercise. I read through, thought half the...A good exercise. I read through, thought half the sentences should not be there. Then realized that was me pushing back against what I should not be pushing against at all; the honing of my own ability to handle this language and cut out the fat.<br /><br />Yer a smrt teacher, Charles! ;-) Keep on keepin' on. I need to brush up, as well.eric1313https://www.blogger.com/profile/13807078704660045859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-50593417464051026472015-03-16T08:05:42.053-05:002015-03-16T08:05:42.053-05:00Mark, lost in their own disorganized thoughts.Mark, lost in their own disorganized thoughts.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-52389165128729773442015-03-16T06:13:22.086-05:002015-03-16T06:13:22.086-05:00Why write short clipped sentences when you can run...Why write short clipped sentences when you can run on and on and on thereby proving to the world you can or can not punctuate and are more than willing to just add words because they run off the tongue so smoothly.the walking manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10058913927297370740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-1060724073025293222015-03-15T14:29:22.053-05:002015-03-15T14:29:22.053-05:00Patti, interesting point. I agree it's general...Patti, interesting point. I agree it's generally a bigger problem in nonfiction than fiction but I see a lot of it in fiction too. Dialogue is a different matter since you may want to indicate a character who is wordy. But in narrative, description and action I see wordiness.<br /><br />Chris, I think the issue for my students is that they tend to hand in early drafts. I'm sure it would get better with more drafts. But I think that until they 'see' what excess verbiage is like they don't really even recognize it.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-23506776649380022552015-03-14T12:29:47.707-05:002015-03-14T12:29:47.707-05:00You think it is draft-related? I know my initial d...You think it is draft-related? I know my initial drafts are terribly wordy at times, and then the scalpels come out; that is actually one of the more enjoyable things I find about writing. For example, the bulk of my writing lately has been for the local paper; say a 200 word record review (first draft is often around 500) or an 800 word book review or interview/profile, that always starts out over 1000. Those constraints certainly force leaner prose!Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10070278104646895235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-73649506852180399732015-03-14T05:53:34.300-05:002015-03-14T05:53:34.300-05:00Interesting exercise. I think wordiness is more of...Interesting exercise. I think wordiness is more often found in non-fiction than fiction. But just last night in my writing group someone pointed out I had made my point and still kept going. Although I am not sure if dialog can have its feet held to the flame as much as description. In this case, I want to show how the protagonist took the subject seriously. pattinase (abbott)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02916037185235335846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-73909289041505664882015-03-13T09:10:43.862-05:002015-03-13T09:10:43.862-05:00Oscar, I certainly have never forgotten my first a...Oscar, I certainly have never forgotten my first attempt to read that crazy sentence.<br /><br />Bernard, I enjoy it.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-9354251784078733212015-03-13T07:31:47.305-05:002015-03-13T07:31:47.305-05:00Excellent exercise, my friend.Excellent exercise, my friend.BernardLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09722619048888613647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-79691652226448142182015-03-12T16:59:58.366-05:002015-03-12T16:59:58.366-05:00He/she forgot to put periods at the appropriate pl...He/she forgot to put periods at the appropriate places and other grammatical marks. I think you had a good laugh on that sentence. That last sentence I'm talking about. And this is about as bad.Oscar Casehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10328166606910469945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-1780544757240229762015-03-12T09:42:43.393-05:002015-03-12T09:42:43.393-05:00Prashant, I could do some more of these. I'll ...Prashant, I could do some more of these. I'll have to see what I've got.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-70235267166518894142015-03-11T22:01:28.682-05:002015-03-11T22:01:28.682-05:00Charles, the quiz wasn't bad, I agree. I thoug...Charles, the quiz wasn't bad, I agree. I thought it was straightforward. Your post is a reminder to keep "fat" out of my writing. More please. Prashant C. Trikannadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16079354501998741758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-19827019680359624912015-03-11T21:44:22.535-05:002015-03-11T21:44:22.535-05:00David C., I would be happy with that.
Richard, we...David C., I would be happy with that.<br /><br />Richard, we spend four or five classes doing exercises like this, sometimes with much longer paragraphs, so they'll get in the habit of editing.<br /><br />RTD, Richard. I tell my students that adverbs are just another tool in the tool box. It's not the tool to use all the time, but when you need it you should use it. I tell them that you never throw out a tool<br /><br />Tom, imagine reading a whole paper much like that! I did.<br /><br />Ty, the students in class today were asking if I were ever going to use some of their sentences. I said, quite possibly, but I'll protect your identities. <br /><br />Sage, it's a class about writing scientific papers in psychology. I let them have a wide range of topics to chose from since it's more about the writing than the subject matter per se.<br /><br />Alex, yes indeed. Me as well.<br /><br />Greg, we actually have a fair amount of fun with it. Students would rather rewrite other people's words than their own.<br /><br />Cloudia, thankee. I appreciate it.<br /><br />Brian, I call students on how some of them will deliberately write long sentences just to fill up space.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-53439585572424555472015-03-11T21:10:14.177-05:002015-03-11T21:10:14.177-05:00oh i could give you some examples...hey that is wh...oh i could give you some examples...hey that is what they teach you in grad school by giving you minimum number of pages...ha....<br /><br />tighten it up, fire for effect.Brian Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722940075884718007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-58649755649954684172015-03-11T20:32:34.737-05:002015-03-11T20:32:34.737-05:00You are teaching the REAL stuff! Excellent lesson,...You are teaching the REAL stuff! Excellent lesson, Charles<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />ALOHA from Honolulu<br /><a href="http://comfortspiral.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">ComfortSpiral</a><br /> =^..^=Cloudiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05853753108637831069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-5374208651912683772015-03-11T18:59:05.670-05:002015-03-11T18:59:05.670-05:00wow... that last sentence sure didn't evolve! ...wow... that last sentence sure didn't evolve! good quiz, that's a great idea and a good exercise.<br />- GregGreghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15344808703550376121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-15110832361768597912015-03-11T17:42:22.420-05:002015-03-11T17:42:22.420-05:00That last one confused me...That last one confused me...Alex J. Cavanaughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09770065693345181702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-85087125937510845592015-03-11T17:19:59.522-05:002015-03-11T17:19:59.522-05:00Is this a psych writing class? That last sentence...Is this a psych writing class? That last sentence is a dozy... sagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17499891950639742366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-2599582394310229862015-03-11T14:13:00.811-05:002015-03-11T14:13:00.811-05:00Professor, I askt you not to use my example! But n...Professor, I askt you not to use my example! But nooooo, youse just had to does it, didn't you? And I still stand by my words that that evolution is'nt proved because enternity and infinitity and stuff and chocolate popcorn balls. So theres.Tyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09192814826756623212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-15764864992550358042015-03-11T13:56:42.568-05:002015-03-11T13:56:42.568-05:00Guh! That last example...Good Lord...Guh! That last example...Good Lord...Tom Doolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03451129317759266295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-35912690682888510292015-03-11T13:46:15.017-05:002015-03-11T13:46:15.017-05:00Most adverbs are not needed. Yeah, I get the irony...Most adverbs are not needed. Yeah, I get the irony of saying "most" in that sentence.R.T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13220814349193561823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-58852476091300741642015-03-11T13:38:41.317-05:002015-03-11T13:38:41.317-05:00By the way, i disagree with RTD that adverbs are g...By the way, i disagree with RTD that adverbs are garbage.Rick Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07978136287154214297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-33077838914347302162015-03-11T13:36:43.716-05:002015-03-11T13:36:43.716-05:00That last sentence sounds like something a 7th gra...That last sentence sounds like something a 7th grader wrote.<br /><br />Cutting fat is usually part of the edit process, I wonder how much of that is done anymore.Rick Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07978136287154214297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-16757379656183301062015-03-11T12:47:52.502-05:002015-03-11T12:47:52.502-05:00Papa Hemingway would be proud of your endeavors, C...Papa Hemingway would be proud of your endeavors, Charles.David Cranmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04749857752139212888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-84477854253808310682015-03-11T11:26:57.007-05:002015-03-11T11:26:57.007-05:00RTD, we spend a fair amount of time with Elements ...RTD, we spend a fair amount of time with Elements of StyleCharles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.com