tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post1091635370988873109..comments2024-02-12T17:59:33.534-06:00Comments on RAZORED ZEN: Writing as PlayCharles Gramlichhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-45399216190764037942013-11-19T08:39:56.034-06:002013-11-19T08:39:56.034-06:00Jodi, I'm not sure what you mean by personal. ...Jodi, I'm not sure what you mean by personal. Every writer has their own personal approach, I'm sure, but one can change one's writing habits. I've done it before.<br /><br />Vesper, and therein lies the joy!Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-31946846365504831472013-11-18T22:38:09.208-06:002013-11-18T22:38:09.208-06:00I completely agree with you! I've tried plotti...I completely agree with you! I've tried plotting a few times but it never worked. Plot details that I cannot hold in my head will be lost if put on paper anyway because I probably won't re-read them. I scribble scenes, or ideas for scenes... the rest is just the pleasure of "discovering" my story... :-)Vesperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12417602625059442986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-37544088270882778902013-11-18T20:19:11.786-06:002013-11-18T20:19:11.786-06:00Charles-I love when you explain methods and then a...Charles-I love when you explain methods and then aren't afraid to stretch yourself and try them! It's interesting, but don't you think it's all personal?jodihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01798858210138821711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-16753462854478707912013-11-18T07:59:37.710-06:002013-11-18T07:59:37.710-06:00Natasha, I've always written nonfiction faster...Natasha, I've always written nonfiction faster than fiction and I have tended to think it was due to the fact that I knew where I was going better. I guess different folks are different, though. As you say.<br /><br />Erik, amen, brother.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-23187574024896807142013-11-17T23:14:35.854-06:002013-11-17T23:14:35.854-06:00Like paint by numbers -- that's a perfect anal...Like paint by numbers -- that's a perfect analogy. Right on, man! If it ain't got that swing, it don't mean a thing as far as satisfaction. . . Here's to play-as-work and work-as-play. Erik Donald Francehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02332500850365598564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-8942686788698193042013-11-17T17:56:02.097-06:002013-11-17T17:56:02.097-06:00I've tried plotting, and I do wish I were a pl...I've tried plotting, and I do wish I were a plotter, but if I plot it out, I'm done. It never gets written.<br /><br />I'm not sure it's related to speed though... I can write pretty fast if I give in to my nonlinear, jumping around process. It's a mess for a long time... and I have to clean it up afterward by outlining and plotting it after the fact, LOL!<br /><br />Definitely to each his own!Spy Scribblerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14299551957327543491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-90744003170508085102013-11-17T09:08:26.070-06:002013-11-17T09:08:26.070-06:00Mark, wow! That's a lot of words man.Mark, wow! That's a lot of words man.<br />Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-5348661702138070802013-11-17T06:50:25.599-06:002013-11-17T06:50:25.599-06:00Pantser---when I did my first long work 21 days 85...Pantser---when I did my first long work 21 days 85,000 words and a very unexpected ending. A year later did a sequel so i could kill off everyone and not have to get stuck in that genre. 85,000 words 2 weeks.<br />I've got 6-8 full length mss on my hard drive *shrug* all done the same way. Of course edits are hell but that's true with everything, the second guessing yesterdays thoughts today.the walking manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10058913927297370740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-345187368263817322013-11-16T16:35:12.317-06:002013-11-16T16:35:12.317-06:00Patti, I know my own plotting comes from the subco...Patti, I know my own plotting comes from the subconscious most of the time so it does make sense<br />Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-38576029248690972132013-11-16T11:39:28.614-06:002013-11-16T11:39:28.614-06:00It's like seeing a movie I have read the plot ...It's like seeing a movie I have read the plot of for me. I write to find out what's going to happen. It I know, it loses a lot for me. And I secretly believe my subconsious minf is a plotter and my conscious mind a pantser. Does that make sense? pattinase (abbott)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02916037185235335846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-84070977958679692812013-11-16T09:38:26.896-06:002013-11-16T09:38:26.896-06:00G. B., sometimes planning a piece out on a detaile...G. B., sometimes planning a piece out on a detailed level will get you lost in those details. you get so caught up in the little picture that you can't see the forest for the trees so to speak.<br /><br />Ivan, I'm that way about stuff. I really have to write it down before I understand it fully. And not always then.<br /><br />David C., yes, that seems just about the best way to me, and what I typically do these days.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-75405634326756182532013-11-16T09:38:16.082-06:002013-11-16T09:38:16.082-06:00Les Edgerton once advised in a class not to start ...Les Edgerton once advised in a class not to start a story until you have an ending in mind. The "play" then becomes the process of finding a way to that ending that is both unpredictable and inevitable. <br /><br />As a reader, I often sense when a writer has lost interest in what they're writing. It's almost as much work to read then as it must have been to write. I like to think I can also tell when someone is just churning out words; the writing seems plodding and lifeless. Ron Scheerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15357501069513854664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-29271094159068351562013-11-16T05:19:31.905-06:002013-11-16T05:19:31.905-06:00Pantser at heart too, Charles. I like to outline a...Pantser at heart too, Charles. I like to outline a story and have an ending in sight but allow the characters to fill it in themselves. David Cranmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04749857752139212888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-41795373439624417412013-11-15T19:48:15.692-06:002013-11-15T19:48:15.692-06:00Was it Somerset Maugham who had a character saying...Was it Somerset Maugham who had a character saying, "How do I know what I mean until I write it down?"<br />Presumably, that's thinking like grandmother. <br />Well, for me it's largely go, Granny, go.<br /> <br />Comes to plots though, I seem to steal a lot from old TV and movies. <br /> Hitchcock will pull you through.ivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05662075375182633162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-75735905709445675402013-11-15T18:13:15.313-06:002013-11-15T18:13:15.313-06:00I'm pretty much a "pantser" when it ...I'm pretty much a "pantser" when it comes to writing. Even with my first novel, I basically went where it unfolded.<br /><br />About the only time I would even remotely plot something (and this is true for my novel as well as the novellas that I have completed and waiting for the next step) is when I happen to get completely lost within the story. And I don't mean lost as totally immersing myself and become one with it, but actually being lost, like not knowing where I am.<br /><br />When that happens, I'll do a very brief plot/character outline, which usually does the trick and I soon find myself back on track.G. B. Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09783331838434598963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-789134190498180712013-11-15T13:12:22.215-06:002013-11-15T13:12:22.215-06:00Bernard, I like to experiment but as I generally f...Bernard, I like to experiment but as I generally find, I have my way of doing it and it works best for me. Perhaps for no one else. As you say.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-48679966712871522602013-11-15T09:05:25.272-06:002013-11-15T09:05:25.272-06:00The only axiom for writers I believe in is we writ...The only axiom for writers I believe in is we write alone, and in a manner suited only to the voices in our own heads. I let the writing gurus do it their way, and I do it my way - so far, it's a hell of a lot of fun. :)BernardLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09722619048888613647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-70626952630124017042013-11-15T08:12:30.216-06:002013-11-15T08:12:30.216-06:00Ty, the only time I really churn out words is occa...Ty, the only time I really churn out words is occassionally when I'm rough drafting a scene where I pretty much know what is happening. That always needs quite a lot of rewriting though. Well, it always needs rewriting.<br /><br />Riot Kitty, I've learned to enjoy my character's moment's of rebellion, although if they go too far I remind them that they could die with the click of a key. They usually straighten up after that.<br /><br />Prashant, no problem. Glad you enjoyed.<br />Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-43841847427858240822013-11-15T05:49:37.703-06:002013-11-15T05:49:37.703-06:00Lots of food for thought here, Charles. Your exper...Lots of food for thought here, Charles. Your experience with writing are tips for my own — many thanks.Prashant C. Trikannadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16079354501998741758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-26969902826216497412013-11-15T00:30:28.322-06:002013-11-15T00:30:28.322-06:00I never knew there was a term for us (I am a pants...I never knew there was a term for us (I am a pantser as well)! If you're not enjoying it, there's no point, right? <br /><br />I also never knew characters could be so stubborn. I mean, I plan the rough outline in my head and they just get carried away. Riot Kittyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02725825736285347870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-51641341366537178652013-11-14T22:21:24.143-06:002013-11-14T22:21:24.143-06:00Funny, we write in almost the exact same fashion, ...Funny, we write in almost the exact same fashion, though like Angie above, I can get out about a thousand words an hour.<br /><br />However, I rarely sit and write straight through an hour. More like 20 minutes to a half hour at most. Sometimes I'll sit and just type out a hundred words or so, the next few paragraphs that have hit me. Then I'll go and do something else and come back later.<br /><br />On rare occasions, I do manage to sit straight through a couple of thousand words, but usually that's a dialogue-heavy scene.Tyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09192814826756623212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-75268688623233524702013-11-14T20:10:10.557-06:002013-11-14T20:10:10.557-06:00Tom, I think we all do some outlining but pantsers...Tom, I think we all do some outlining but pantsers do it all in their heads while plotters are more methodical. I kind of fall between the two.<br /><br />Angie, I know that I do write faster when I know what is going to happen. a lot of time in the early part of a story I'm slowed down by fooling around with tacks that don't take me anywhere. I'm probably not gonna be a thousand words an hour person I'm guessing, though.<br /><br />Cloudia, thankee. Glad you enjoyed.<br /><br />Chris, I like the analogy with geography here. I know that for me writing is like being on the trail itself and feeling its dips and rises while reading is more like flying over it.<br /><br />Sarah, thumbs up!<br /><br />Randy, I've met a few writers I've felt I might be able to write with, and many, many that I know I never could. I'd think a plotter and a pantser together would kill each other. :)Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-21807123789515410932013-11-14T19:19:17.726-06:002013-11-14T19:19:17.726-06:00Each writes to their strengths. What works for one...Each writes to their strengths. What works for one won't for another. <br /><br />I remember reading a novel years ago by Frederick Pohl and Lester del Rey. Pohl was a meticulous plotter and del Rey a pantser. The way they worked was Pohl plotted, wrote the first chapter, then sent it all to del Rey. Who promptly tossed the plot and wrote what flowed from his mind. Before Pohl could write the next chapter, he had to lay out a whole book from what had come before.<br /><br />They went back and forth like that for the whole book, PREFERRED RISK I believe, and it turned out surprisingly well. But they didn't work together again if I remember.Randy Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16627907086811387527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-76325710698142877892013-11-14T17:01:54.163-06:002013-11-14T17:01:54.163-06:00Amen.Amen.Sarah Hinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13888406261817690010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28221839.post-62034874146916438872013-11-14T15:44:44.666-06:002013-11-14T15:44:44.666-06:00I'm a hybrid myself. I usually have a start, m...I'm a hybrid myself. I usually have a start, maybe an end, and as I go things will come up that I want to have happen that I'll make note of to get to. Kind of like this quote from Rebecca Solnit:<br /><br /><br /><i>Part of what makes roads, trails, and paths so unique as built structures is that they cannot be perceived as a whole all at once by a sedentary onlooker. They unfold in time as one travels along them, just as a story does as one listens or reads, and a hairpin turn is like a plot twist, a steep ascent a building of suspense to the view at the summit, a fork in the road an introduction of a new storyline, arrival the end of the story. Just as writing allows one to read the words of someone who is absent, so roads make it possible to trace the route of the absent.</i><br /><br />So maybe I can see the top of a hill I'm climbing (writing) toward, and I get to the top and might expect to see a perfect downhill to the river and home. Or, like Lewis and Clark, I realize there are unexpected mountaintops stretching into the distance, and to get over and around them may take more than I anticipated. . . .Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10070278104646895235noreply@blogger.com